A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:51 pm

The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:42 pm

daishan wrote:Going to leave a 2.6 speed 1h axe with Colossus on it logging for a while, to see if they did change the proc rate in between builds.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m ... details/0/


1465/(14118+1839)=9.18% 2.12 ppm

Still not making a whole lot of sense.

Edit: I think those numbers are wrong the axe broke so there's some melee attacks at the end with no weapon (think that happened on the first 2.6 log as well), hope there's an easy way to count the useful melee attacks.
Daishan
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett
User avatar
daishan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:24 pm

Klaudandus wrote:1.6 Speed data for Colossus - No Seal of Truth
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a4vw8ndj1ehkw8xh/

132 procs in 2273 attacks, 5.81% +/- 0.96%, 2.18 PPM

daishan wrote:
daishan wrote:Going to leave a 2.6 speed 1h axe with Colossus on it logging for a while, to see if they did change the proc rate in between builds.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m ... details/0/


1465/(14118+1839)=9.18% 2.12 ppm

Still not making a whole lot of sense.

Edit: I think those numbers are wrong the axe broke so there's some melee attacks at the end with no weapon (think that happened on the first 2.6 log as well), hope there's an easy way to count the useful melee attacks.


Filtering the time range to cut off the period where the weapon broke gives 1441 procs in 13994 attacks, for 10.30% +/- 0.54%, 2.38 PPM.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:26 pm


Heals for exactly the same amount in both logs, ES isn't affected by SoI.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:50 pm

from the balance thread:

Ask, and ye shall receive:
River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.
Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.
Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.
Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.
Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.
Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 4677
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:53 am

Thx for the info.
I'm not sure how to calculate in the 3 sec cd on Colossus but considering our 3.6 speed data worked out to 3.6-speed 2H axe: 15.27% +/- 0.69%, ~2.55 PPM, the logs that I did for that had no haste so couldn't of dropped under the 3 sec cd. Just doesn't look to be 3PPM from our data.
Elemental Force at 5PPM, unless they've changed it in the last month that's just not even close to the 3PPM that ppl here have reported.
Daishan
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett
User avatar
daishan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:25 pm

I suspect they have changed in the past month; we know that Windsong did at least (it went from 3PPM to 1PPM).

I'll have to take a look at our data and see if it agrees with those descriptions. I share daishan's skepticism, but it's also possible that they changed very recently.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:16 pm

I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.
On the upside, critblock chance = mastery

Naked 85 prot warrior:
Code: Select all
block DR = baseBlock + BoD + 1 / (1 / 149.1 + 0.885 / (mastery * 1 / 4.75 ))
block DR = 3 + 10 + 1 / (1 / 149.1 + 0.885 / (17.6 * 1 / 4.75 ))
block DR = 17.07
mythor
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby xstratax » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:45 pm

mythor wrote:I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.
On the upside, critblock chance = mastery


What is the Mastery rating conversion for Prot Warriors for Block, like for Paladins its 600 Rating per 1% Mastery (and Mastery = Block as well), knowing that would help me make my add-on much more accurate. (Your code looks like Warrior Mastery -> Block is Mastery%/4.75 or Mastery% * 0.2105, which matches my ~0.2 modifier)
xstratax
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:18 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:37 pm

mythor wrote:I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.

Your DR equation is exactly the same (postDR=1/(1/149.1+0.885/preDR)). You just have a much worse mastery->block conversion factor than we do.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:21 am

Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:32 pm

benebarba wrote:Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?

I was hoping to collect more data to refine the coefficient values, in particular the Parry one (Dodge seems identical to Cata, and we know that fairly exactly).
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:46 pm

It shows how sleepy I was yesterday, I used dodge/parry data gathered from my paladin instead of warrior. Now that I do use my warrior data I see that both parry and dodge grow slower compared to the paladin data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ZOVE#gid=0
mythor
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:03 pm

theckhd wrote:
benebarba wrote:Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?

I was hoping to collect more data to refine the coefficient values, in particular the Parry one (Dodge seems identical to Cata, and we know that fairly exactly).



to the beta!

Here's what I have at the moment, I'll get some more focused on only different values of parry rating:

All are for a level 85 human protection paladin with no buffs. % shown is the character sheet number (unless a '+' is shown, then it is from the tooltip for the rating conversion)

Naked:
Strength: 164
Mastery: 0 (+0%)
Stam: 317
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01 %
Parry: 0 rating, 3.67 %
Block: 21.52%

Ret Geared (strength plate and 2-hander, no dodge/parry):
Strength: 6287
Mastery: 1988 (+11.09%)
Stam: 9034
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 0 rating, 29.01%
Block: 31.84%

Prot Geared(hit/exp soft cap, stam/mastery gemmed):
Strength: 4077
Mastery: 1980 (+11.04%)
Stam: 12,240
Dodge: 1785 rating, 11.83%
Parry: 1469 rating, 25.78%
Block: 31.81%

Prot Geared (all gear reforged to have parry, stam/mastery gemmed):
Strength: 4077
Mastery: 2449 (+13.66%)
Stam: 12,240
Dodge: 1219 rating, 9.82%
Parry: 2588 rating, 29.63%
Block: 34.03%

Above gear, removing pieces to get each of the following:
Strength: 3129
Stam: 9944
Dodge: 913 rating, 8.68%
Parry: 2016 rating, 24.07%

Strength: 2061
Stam: 6572
Dodge: 666 rating, 7.73%
Parry: 1465 rating, 17.80%

Strength: 963
Stam: 3535
Dodge: 445 rating, 6.85%
Parry: 609 rating, 9.81%


Let me know if that helps, or if I need to do it at a constant strength value.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:44 pm

Unfortunately, I was hoping for L90 values... :/

I can use the L85 ones, but I don't know the rating->pct conversion off the top of my head. I want to say it's 256 @ L85, but I honestly don't remember.

<edit> it's 265. Updated the spreadsheet, now there's an 85 version and a 90 version:
85: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=3
90: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=2
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:00 pm

theckhd wrote:Unfortunately, I was hoping for L90 values... :/

I can use the L85 ones, but I don't know the rating->pct conversion off the top of my head. I want to say it's 256 @ L85, but I honestly don't remember.

<edit> it's 265. Updated the spreadsheet, now there's an 85 version and a 90 version:
85: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=3
90: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=2


Sorry about that - I'd have figured out the conversion and posted it, but I just caught your edit.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:17 pm

Playing around with matlab files provided by Theck I find the following for 85 prot war to make the results fit:

Code: Select all
k = 0.956
Cp = 238.7
Cd = 91


k still seems to be the cataclysm value. Cp is not that far off but Cd seems to be pretty different. I think I need more data. Is there more warrior data available somewhere?
mythor
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:32 pm

Mythor, where is that data from? L85 on beta?
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:38 pm

yes
mythor
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:42 pm

Using the L85 dodge data for paladins:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 1/(1/C+0.885/x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       65.45  (65.17, 65.72)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0006356
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.00389


So dodge cap is unchanged, and the formula definitely uses k=0.885.

Parry data is giving me:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649

That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:50 pm

when using warrior 85 beta dodge data:

Code: Select all
d2_try1_fit =
     General model:
     d2_try1_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+k./x)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       88.64  (86.4, 90.87)
       k =      0.9541  (0.9524, 0.9558)

d2_try1_gof =
           sse: 7.1744e-05
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 9
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0028


That gave me the feeling k was still 0.956. So with k fixed:

Code: Select all
d2_try2_fit =
     General model:
     d2_try2_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./x)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       91.09  (90.31, 91.86)

d2_try2_gof =
           sse: 1.2137e-04
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 10
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0035


Parry with k = 0.956

Code: Select all
p1_try3_fit =

     General model:
     p1_try3_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./(x./243.7))
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       238.7  (238.5, 239)

p1_try3_gof =

           sse: 1.3492e-05
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 14
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 9.8169e-04
mythor
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:13 pm

mythor wrote:Playing around with matlab files provided by Theck I find the following for 85 prot war to make the results fit:

Code: Select all
k = 0.956
Cp = 238.7
Cd = 91


k still seems to be the cataclysm value. Cp is not that far off but Cd seems to be pretty different. I think I need more data. Is there more warrior data available somewhere?


Just took some of my own data on beta with a L85 pre-made warrior:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=4

Confirmed that your dodge formula is different, and still using the cataclysm k coefficient:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 1/(1/C+0.956/x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       91.57  (91.06, 92.07)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0001821
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.003606


Parry data shows the same k discrepancy, given the known value of str->parry conversion factor. It's not clear if the parry cap is subtly different than the paladin one, or if we're just limited by noise and a small data set.
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+k/(x/243.9+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       238.4  (236.8, 239.9)
       k =      0.9556  (0.9551, 0.9562)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0001639
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.003551
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:52 pm

theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649

That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?


Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:47 pm

sept 11, if I recall correctly
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Nooska » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 am

Klaudandus wrote:sept 11, if I recall correctly

That is indeed the date they've announced as their expected shutdown (subject to change)
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest