The lameness of Archeology..

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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby Qeeze » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:05 am

The punching bag that is your own portable target dummy is quite cool, and worth doing some digging to obtain.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:15 am

degre wrote:To be fair I like what they've done.

By removing epics they have removed the 'compulsory' bit, this profession is now completely unnecessary and optional, which means that if you care you do it, if you don't find it appealing you have no use for it and can be ignored completely.

On top of the above they have actually added some nice lore that can be discovered while farming, so while you are already farming to get your items, now you can have some tasty bit of lore while you do it that give a use for those greys, instead of just being sold for a gold or two.


Umm... yeah. In the process of not making it compulsory for raiding :roll: they made it meaningless unless you are a lore geek, and even that's pretty thin.

People seem to be stuck on raid epics. Forget those. Put in mounts, pets, tmog gear.. something FUN.

You really like the idea of getting 10 achievement points for solving the same grey item 20 times?
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:17 am

Mannstein wrote:To be honest there isn't much more they can do with archeology...

A) They cannot put a title for each type of archeology site. i.e. if you have farmed more dwarf grey items you could be Dwarfen Loremaster, if you had concentrated on Troll's you would be Troll Seer, Elven Conservator, etc.

B) They cannot put a reputation that ONLY raises with turning in grey items, and put some non-raid items and cosmetics, and some BoP enchants that are = to normal enchants/inscription, (i.e. nice to have but not mandatory).

C) Neither add a trader that exchanges 3/4/5 grey items for those things that help research.

D) And it's impossible to create non-epic BoA sets that can be transmog. Dwarf full plate armour, Silvermoon guard armour, cloth High Elf mage set, Draenai futurist hunter\mail gear, Orc plate gear...

E) IT's impossible to create a BoA set that needs diferent dig sites and changes the druid forms, armour, feathers, Runes... etc.

TLDR: The only limit is their lack of effort.


Fixed.

Besides a pittance of lore for lore geeks, there's NOTHING compelling in the current implementation for MoP.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby Mannstein » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:23 am

halabar wrote:
Mannstein wrote:To be honest there isn't much more they can do with archeology...

(...)

TLDR: The only limit is their lack of effort.


Fixed.

Besides a pittance of lore for lore geeks, there's NOTHING compelling in the current implementation for MoP.

Sad but true...

About the Lore questing:

Why should i lose 5minutes in Wowwiki to get all the lore when i can lose (insert random hours/days) digging to get 90% of the lore???

The only reason to do Archeology is if you really like to dig for something worthless, everything you can "Lore" of it, it's probably already on Wiki and more complete.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby degre » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:49 am

Same goes for fishing, what's the point in fishing forever to get a rare fish that does nothing but being a rare fish? What's the point of fishing every fish there is?

Or what's the point in Insane in the Membrane? What's the point in farming any rep that is not necessary for anything but giving you a 10 points achievement? Or you want to tell me that killing bruisers for days and then pirates forever after is more compelling and fun than hunting for archaeology bits?

You like? You do it.
You don't find it interesting? You ignore it.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby Flex » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:55 am

halabar wrote: In comparison, Cata had 18 epic arch finds, 14 rare. And we are getting 4 rare this first go around?...


Someone on the official forums once complained that Cataclysm didn't have as many achievement points to grind out as there was in WotLK when they were introduced. This is the same dumb argument.

The only reason to do Archeology is if you really like to dig for something worthless, everything you can "Lore" of it, it's probably already on Wiki and more complete.


People bitch about not enough lore being in the game, they add a system to the game to get that lore and people bitch.

You really like the idea of getting 10 achievement points for solving the same grey item 20 times?


I view it as similar to the achievement for hitting level 10 or equipping all rare items in your equipment slots. It is something that happens in the course of the game, not something one sets out to purposely do.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:55 am

degre wrote:Same goes for fishing, what's the point in fishing forever to get a rare fish that does nothing but being a rare fish? What's the point of fishing every fish there is?


Well, there was a title (done) and the challenge of winning the tourney (done), and of course you can eat the fish.. and sell the fish... (400-800G/stack for raid-food fish is not bad at all...)

Insane?.. yeah, that's pretty insane. But you kind of made my point, at least there's a title for that, they didn't even add a new one for Arch in MoP.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby Flex » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:56 am

halabar wrote:
degre wrote:Same goes for fishing, what's the point in fishing forever to get a rare fish that does nothing but being a rare fish? What's the point of fishing every fish there is?


Well, there was a title (done) and the challenge of winning the tourney (done), and of course you can eat the fish.. and sell the fish... (400-800G/stack for raid-food fish is not bad at all...)

Insane?.. yeah, that's pretty insane. But you kind of made my point, at least there's a title for that, they didn't even add a new one for Arch in MoP.


They didn't add a new title for fishing, obviously that means fishing is horrible!
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 am

Flex wrote:
halabar wrote:
degre wrote:Same goes for fishing, what's the point in fishing forever to get a rare fish that does nothing but being a rare fish? What's the point of fishing every fish there is?


Well, there was a title (done) and the challenge of winning the tourney (done), and of course you can eat the fish.. and sell the fish... (400-800G/stack for raid-food fish is not bad at all...)

Insane?.. yeah, that's pretty insane. But you kind of made my point, at least there's a title for that, they didn't even add a new one for Arch in MoP.


They didn't add a new title for fishing, obviously that means fishing is horrible!


See the part about eating and selling the fish... :-)
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby degre » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 am

halabar wrote:
degre wrote:Same goes for fishing, what's the point in fishing forever to get a rare fish that does nothing but being a rare fish? What's the point of fishing every fish there is?


Well, there was a title (done) and the challenge of winning the tourney (done), and of course you can eat the fish.. and sell the fish... (400-800G/stack for raid-food fish is not bad at all...)

Insane?.. yeah, that's pretty insane. But you kind of made my point, at least there's a title for that, they didn't even add a new one for Arch in MoP.

No title? So what? They've added a different type of reward, you still have new items and new achievements, all you are saying here is that archaeology is completely dumb, but if they've given you something you fancy, like a mount or a title, you would have gladly done something you define as completely dumb in order to get some shiny pixels. Too bad there is nothing worth for you, fair enough, what is the problem? You say is dumb, ignore it, do something you enjoy more and leave this to whoever is interested in what has to offer.

Is anyone pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to do? Or are you finding that with the addition of challege modes, scenarios, pokemons and god knows what I've forgot you have nothing else to do if you don't do this one profession?

And I kind of made your point what? That people are insane enough to farm for years doing something completely retarded to get a title? Cool. In acheaology you can farm for years doing something completely retarded and get a bunch of achievements. Isn't the same thing?

On the raid food fish, tell me how much raid food you get from fishing the rat in the sewers, Old Crafty, Old Ironjaw or the coins. And people still fish them.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 am

degre wrote:You say is dumb, ignore it, do something you enjoy more and leave this to whoever is interested in what has to offer.

Is anyone pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to do? Or are you finding that with the addition of challege modes, scenarios, pokemons and god knows what I've forgot you have nothing else to do if you don't do this one profession?


Perhaps part of my frustration is that Arch was something I found worthwhile in Cata, but now see no reason to continue with it.

But of course, I'm not entitled to my opinion on it. :roll: Guess I should just complain about welfare epics..

Perhaps I should just troll like Flex.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:52 am

halabar wrote:
degre wrote:You say is dumb, ignore it, do something you enjoy more and leave this to whoever is interested in what has to offer.

Is anyone pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to do? Or are you finding that with the addition of challege modes, scenarios, pokemons and god knows what I've forgot you have nothing else to do if you don't do this one profession?


Perhaps part of my frustration is that Arch was something I found worthwhile in Cata, but now see no reason to continue with it.

But of course, I'm not entitled to my opinion on it. :roll: Guess I should just complain about welfare epics..

Perhaps I should just troll like Flex.

you are but you should be prepared for a discussion about said topic
just cause we are discussing things that you bring up doesnt mean we are attacking you or your beliefs/values/opinions

and im going to stop there before i really get going on this rant as this isnt the place for it
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby degre » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:38 am

halabar wrote:
degre wrote:You say is dumb, ignore it, do something you enjoy more and leave this to whoever is interested in what has to offer.

Is anyone pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to do? Or are you finding that with the addition of challege modes, scenarios, pokemons and god knows what I've forgot you have nothing else to do if you don't do this one profession?


Perhaps part of my frustration is that Arch was something I found worthwhile in Cata, but now see no reason to continue with it.

But of course, I'm not entitled to my opinion on it. :roll: Guess I should just complain about welfare epics..

Perhaps I should just troll like Flex.

Saying that you don't like it is your opinion, you are entitled to it and will be respected.

At the same time other people are entitled to their idea, and I think you can appreciate that nobody told you that you must like it, but has been said that, considering that in this very thread someone appear to like it, maybe you have to recognise that maybe Blizzard didn't botch it, maybe they simply aimed it at people that aren't you.

Which means, you want to express your opinion? Very welcome to it.
You want to whine endlessly because you are not the centre of the word? Expect someone to bash you in return.

There are tons of things I don't like in this world, I don't whine about it every day, I do something else that I enjoy.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby Mannstein » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:59 am

Well, i would like to understand where is the ideas or discussions???
degre wrote:By removing epics they have removed the 'compulsory' bit, this profession is now completely unnecessary and optional, which means that if you care you do it, if you don't find it appealing you have no use for it and can be ignored completely.

halabar wrote: Umm... yeah. In the process of not making it compulsory for raiding :roll: they made it meaningless unless you are a lore geek, and even that's pretty thin.

See this is a discussion, the next answer is not:
degre wrote: You like? You do it.
You don't find it interesting? You ignore it.


I was prepared for a discussion, what i don't agree is that "go do something else" is a way of improving Archeology.

bldavis wrote: you are but you should be prepared for a discussion about said topic
just cause we are discussing things that you bring up doesnt mean we are attacking you or your beliefs/values/opinions

and im going to stop there before i really get going on this rant as this isnt the place for it

No it's not, i don't see any discussion here about Archeology, i just see a part about comparing a secondary profession to achievments, feats of strenght and reputations. Well i also see some bashing and personal issues (not against me).

Reading again i also see some trolling, right Flex? :P

Stealing Degre's phrase:
degre wrote: There are tons of topics I don't like in this forum, I don't whine about it every day, I post on something else that I enjoy.
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Re: The lameness of Archeology..

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 am

you do have a point,. sorry for the tiny bit of trolling
it was just built up over several threads i had read

as for Archy discussion,
i dont care about the toys or the shinies, sure they are nice, but i was really into archy for the lore
if that doesnt float your boat, im sorry but no one is forcing you to do it.

i think how they are changing it IS improving the prof though
you get to see the items you have completed, and so they become more then just another 5g grey to throw at a vendor
do i wish they had added more pets/mounts/cool items?
yes and no

i have 3/4 pets, and the only mount i was interested in
the on use items? they are cool...but really just take up space in my bags/bank

how to make it better?
well we could tie a rep to it (done) and give the rep items useful for pvp (uh oh, mandatory for pvpers to do pve, cant happen) or pve endgame (mandatory for raiding, cant happen) or useful in 5mans .... well that went over well didnt it?
i think i had maybe 6 runs all of cata that we had the buff from archy
though i did enjoy having an optional boss only summonable through this secondary profession, even if it was a PITA to try and get a group for when no one was on in your guild

honestly, i feel the bottom line is....
if you are interested in lore, you will do this
if you dont give a shit about lore, you wont

there is no way to make it interesting to someone who doesnt care about lore, unless you add a TON of pets/mounts/achievements
hmm....
i seem to remember a gripe about a shit-ton of achievements being tied to archy coming in MoP
looks like they did what they could.
sure we dont get a new pet or mount, but those looking for lore, get it
those looking for reps to grind - check
those looking for cheap easy nerd points - double check

and finally those that dont give a shit about any of this?
dont do the SECONDARY profession?
its like FA, cooking and fishing - it provides a benefit if you choose to level it and use it
if you have someone who is there to heal you, give you food/feasts all the time, and provides all the mats, why level any of the secondaries?

hell i level FA, but i almost never use it
i honestly havent made a bandage since i got the stocking up achievement (or w/e it is called) for making 500 dense embersilk bandages
cooking? i like to provide my own food, plus it ties into an IRL passion of mine...cooking
same with fishing. i love to fish IRL, and it helps feed my cooking in game

i happen to be a lore nut, and will do archy for just the lore
if i get some item that has a cool on use effect GREAT!
if all i get is some greys that vendor for 1-10g each, well thats gold i didnt have before
if i have to make a ton of those because RNG gods hate me? hey more nerd points!
but i know not everyone is like me
its ok to be different.

the bottom line really is if you dont enjoy something that has no bearing on pvp or pve endgame, dont do it
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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