Illidari Council

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Postby Lansky » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:50 pm

The Rogue does fit the niche better with ranged aggro generation and ways to generate threat through both BoSW and BoP. Additionally with all the randomness of the fight between consecration, blizzards, flamestrikes, etc, that can also hit the MT sometimes reflecting the judgement is the difference between life and death. I'm absolutely sure a paladin could do it and do it well, but given that a paladin is better suited to the rogue and a warrior is better suited to the priest and paladin it just never came up.
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Postby Gavel » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:43 pm

Splug wrote:Hrm, other than spell reflect (which I was a noob and didn't realize for about three hours of attempts last week), consecration confusion, and the effective HP gap (which is getting much smaller in a few days), are there any other reasons not to tank Gathios with a paladin? Or does Veras tanking just fit the paladin's niche better?

-Splug


So you mean, other than all of the things that make warriors the clear choice for tanking the paladin, is there any reason to not use a paladin? I guess not..
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Postby Splug » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:56 am

Gavel wrote:
Splug wrote:Hrm, other than spell reflect (which I was a noob and didn't realize for about three hours of attempts last week), consecration confusion, and the effective HP gap (which is getting much smaller in a few days), are there any other reasons not to tank Gathios with a paladin? Or does Veras tanking just fit the paladin's niche better?

-Splug


So you mean, other than all of the things that make warriors the clear choice for tanking the paladin, is there any reason to not use a paladin? I guess not..


Erm, yes. Rereading my post, that was a silly question to ask. I guess the better way to phrase that question is to just put my main concern on the table: currently, my guild has two prot warriors and a feral druid, and we have the druid tank Veras, the other prot warrior tanks Melande, and I take Gathios. If I were to start bringing my paladin in a couple months, how would you guys recommend handling tanking assignments? Would it be more managable to drop the shield bash off Melande (allowing more raid damage from divine wrath, as well as one less interrupt during BoSW) or the spell reflect from Gathios (allowing more tank burst damage)?

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Postby Lansky » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:51 pm

My view may be a bit "old world" for this board but anything less than Warrior on Gathios, Warrior on Malande, and Druid/Paladin on Rogue is less than ideal and you just have to choose your poison. I suppose more Divine Wraths would be better than the tank spontaneously combusting, by a small margin.

On Malande we use a warrior tank and no other melee. Interrupts come from a shaman healing said warrior and two mages with a focus macro. It seems most people use a rogue on Malande but we stopped doing this after a couple attempts so perhaps my view is skewed from this.
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Postby Afraithe » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:04 pm

I wana bring this up again, anyone tanked Gathios?

We currently have a druid, warrior (mt) and me as tanks, I take a lot of damage from the priest. And if we are low on interrupts, would it be better to switch me and the warrior tank? Gearwise we are at about the same lvl. Druid is tanking the Rogue ofc.

I read that the Smite from Lady Melande can be spell reflected as well, but someone in guild said that was wrong, nothing she does can be spellreflected.

We have downed council, but we have always had 2 warriors and me (on rogue), or 2 warriors and a druid (when ive been holy).
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Postby fiorina » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:56 pm

Afraithe wrote:I wana bring this up again, anyone tanked Gathios?

We currently have a druid, warrior (mt) and me as tanks, I take a lot of damage from the priest. And if we are low on interrupts, would it be better to switch me and the warrior tank? Gearwise we are at about the same lvl. Druid is tanking the Rogue ofc.

I read that the Smite from Lady Melande can be spell reflected as well, but someone in guild said that was wrong, nothing she does can be spellreflected.

We have downed council, but we have always had 2 warriors and me (on rogue), or 2 warriors and a druid (when ive been holy).


sure, go for it.... as occasional 7k judgement damage which you can't reflect + extra magical dmg you eat is much easier to counter than couple of heals because of missing interrupt on Malande.
Reflect is listed as na issue tho, I don't know if it still works http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 10&sid=1#0

Paladin quite sucks in this fight, the best place for him is a rogue, but if you have no warrior options, Gathios would work also
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Postby Mithos » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:38 pm

We have 2 prot warrs, 1 feral and me as our tank team, so quite often theres only one warrior about, and he gets lumped with interupting, druid tanks Gathios and me on rogue. If I'm not there, druid goes on rogue, if druid's not there, I'm on rogue and if a warr isn't there, it's set up as above.

The druid sugegsted we switch roles for a try just to see if it was easier for healers, but it was doomed instantly - Consecration Confusion. Never before have I seen my own consecration made so many people run for their lives. Screw the difference in damage incoming, 15 minutes of checking whos consecration is who is just horrible and unneccessary on top of all the other things DPS has to look for.

I adopted the Decapitator method for emergency BoSW right after vanish fades, but I have gotten good at correctly predicting whether he will get it or not, somehow. It doesn't happen often, and tbh I completely forgot about Misdirect as an option, will try to remember that.
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Postby Cakes » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:18 am

Mithos wrote:Consecration Confusion.


Exactly why I opted to never tank Gathios. The fight is long enough as it is, why remove your steadiest bit of dps. If your melee can't melee reliably, there is nothing else for them to do. They can't go gank the priest, and there is no time on target for the rogue.
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Postby Oramac » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:10 pm

well, after a sweet one-shot kill of mother (370 SR on the whole raid what?) we started Council tonight.

it went fairly well, except the rogue kept killing healers while he was stealthed. how do you all prevent this? we were thinking NR pots and priest bubbles and stuff.

also, they SAY you can see him right before he poisons you, but i got poisoned at least 3 times, and even spamming a macro and conscientiously looking for him i couldnt see him. is he like super duper faintly visible and un-targetable? like, when he came out of stealth i had no problems picking him up, but while he was in stealth he wreaked havoc.

thanks!
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Postby Afraithe » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:23 am

1. Everyone should have 10k+ HP
2. Nature res pots
3. Decent raid healing
4. Ppl that have a clue (move away from blizz etc)

The rogue hasn't been a problem for us ever, if you take a pot, he does something like 3k damage? Can't see how you manage to die from that, unless u play naked.

My guess is that your raid isn't interrupting the priest enough, putting a lot of stress on raid healing (if she smites random ppl all the time).
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Postby Oramac » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:27 am

Afraithe wrote:1. Everyone should have 10k+ HP
2. Nature res pots
3. Decent raid healing
4. Ppl that have a clue (move away from blizz etc)

The rogue hasn't been a problem for us ever, if you take a pot, he does something like 3k damage? Can't see how you manage to die from that, unless u play naked.

My guess is that your raid isn't interrupting the priest enough, putting a lot of stress on raid healing (if she smites random ppl all the time).


i know the priest was getting a heal or 2 off, but not sure about smites and such. i wasnt watching her much as i was trying to figure out if i could grab the rogue when he poisoned ppl. we did pretty well with gettin out of aoe's and i like to think the people are quite good, so that just leaves NR pots and raid healing i suppose.
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Postby Gerilith » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:20 pm

The poisoning itself just happens, there isn't anything you can do about it. There is just an animation that looks like he came from behind and did some kind of kidney shot. That's when you get poisoned.
The only thing that this animation does is to indicate who should be healed within the next ~3 seconds by a good amount of ~5000 HP (NR pots are nice2have, but not nessessary and nothing you can count on).

I've got a simple macro for him with /tar /cast avenger's shield that works just fine, spamming it at the end of his vanish.
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Postby Cakes » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:52 pm

NR pots aren't going to help you. We have one person specifically call out on vent who is getting targetted for envenom hits. This person needs heals or they are in jeopardy of being gibbed from an aoe or the priest if she's not interrupted. Your healers are going to want to take mana pots on cooldown rather than NR pots, so you're just going to have to work around the damage.

My guess is that your aren't interrupting the priest enough when she's getting divine wrath casts off on people, which is either gibbing people or putting them at low health at which point an envenom will kill them.
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Postby Splug » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:27 pm

Aye, as long as you have >10k health on the raid, envenom alone should not be lethal. And there's nothing you can do to prevent envenom, either. The rogue runs around for a set interval of time, drops some poison, and then after his stealth phase is over, he reappears. It is worth noting that he will reappear within X distance of where he cast vanish, meaning you can drag him off to a corner by himself and he'll always reappear a good distance away from anyone.

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Postby Inferno255 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:06 pm

In this fight I always end up in the top 3-5 on healing meters when prot, just spamming people with deadly poison or divine wrath=)
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