So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:15 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:You are assuming that I put stock in the story to begin with. Very few, and I mean VERY few questlines ever held my attention.

I'm sure there will be some new version of one of these awesome lines, and I will here about it, but it certainly isn't enough to make questing worth it for me.

We just play(ed) the game for different reasons. Think back. When I was online, How often was I not in some form of dungeon or raid? Even if it was soloing it. I just didn't care for the storylines and the questing enough to be held in rapt interest over and over and over,..

were all leveled to 80/85 via dungeon running /alternative method (Yokuan made almost 85 purely on herbing). I just grew REALLY tired of the questing, while dungeon running was what I was all about.


I'm not a lore freak either, so I only want to see it myself once as well.. and apparently you didn't notice that while you were leveling via dungeons, I was leveling (past 80) by farming... :wink:


My point about that, was that you were saying that I didn't have the ability to see all the changes to the story. I'm simply saying: When I knew what the story was, and I was engaged in the story (I have had a soft spot for the black dragonflight since I made it to Dustwallow in TBC), I still couldn't be bothered to care. What makes you think I would care at all now that they have moved to part of the story that I don't like more than Varian and Garrosh combined?*




*the two worst characters ever to be shat out by the story team. (IMO)
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:16 am

Shoju wrote:My point about that, was that you were saying that I didn't have the ability to see all the changes to the story. I'm simply saying: When I knew what the story was, and I was engaged in the story...


There are three levels here...

Lore geek > "oh, that was interesting" > "just gimme the quest dammit" > wtfIwannaraidnow

If Blizz does the job well, most people will be in the 2nd one, at least on the first toon. If you are already in #3 or #4 on your first pass on new content, then it's probably not the right game for you... ;D
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:38 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:My point about that, was that you were saying that I didn't have the ability to see all the changes to the story. I'm simply saying: When I knew what the story was, and I was engaged in the story...


There are three levels here...

Lore geek > "oh, that was interesting" > "just gimme the quest dammit" > wtfIwannaraidnow

If Blizz does the job well, most people will be in the 2nd one, at least on the first toon. If you are already in #3 or #4 on your first pass on new content, then it's probably not the right game for you... ;D


The first time through content, I'm #2. But the replayability of the questing content was more of a

#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.

from alt #2 on.

Every zone (except Hyjal) had some overly complicated, scripted, solo quest to get moving.

Vashjir? I didn't care about the boat. I wanted the soldiers to die, just so I could move along and get the sea legs, and the sea pony on the gatherers.
Deepholm? I wanted to jump off the wyvern, and rez at my body, because it would have been faster, and I wouldn't have had to listen to her voice anymore (seriously... that voice was terrible)
Uldum? Great. So now, I have to hoof it down there, since you neglected to put the portal in. Then I have to help the prince. Oh right... and the head enchant wasn't "really" BoA (you still needed the rep), so I always took the rep, not the gold.
Twiliands? SERIOUSLY. That was cool the first time, after that, it was a real pain in the ass to do.

Then there were the rep grinds in the zones. Vashj was broken at launch (that was fun). That probably attributed to my utter loathing of the zone, and refusal to go back. Therazane rep was AWFUL. The intro was too long. The dailies were not enjoyable. The zone on a whole was a massive disappointment. Uldum was just... 'meh'. The story didn't grab me at all. It didn't seem to fit with the rest of the idea for the story. I don't know. the zone just never did it for me. It's the only zone I never got the quest achieve for on a character. Maybe because I did hyjal and deepholm, and then was high enough to care about twilands, and felt like uldum was a casualty of that. Twilands was fantastic. I love that zone. I just hate the opening. Great story on both ally and horde sides. Hyjal was "ok". It didn't make me hate it, or love it. The only thing about hyjal I didn't like was the phased requirement to open the molten front. When I leveled my paladin, I went vash - Deepholm because I wanted the rep for the head enchant quickly, so I had done 0 hyjal, only to find out that I would need to for the dailies. That was disheartening.

They would have to improve the bulk of the questing experience over what they had in cataclysm before it would "measure up" to the questing in BC or WotLK for me. Even BC, which had similar rep grinds in zones didn't feel as painful as Cata.

Maybe it was that I enjoyed HFP, Nag, and SMV so much that I didn't mind Zang (which looked great), BeM (bad zone IMO), and Netherstorm (was tedious).
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:17 am

Shoju wrote:#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.


Just imagine Pandaria, with no flying until you are lvl 90... :shock: :shock: :D :D :D
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:28 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.


Just imagine Pandaria, with no flying until you are lvl 90... :shock: :shock: :D :D :D


Like it SHOULD be. Cataclysm was the only expansion that launched with us being able to fly right away.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby degre » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:32 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.


Just imagine Pandaria, with no flying until you are lvl 90... :shock: :shock: :D :D :D

I'm loving it...

Just dinged 88 yesterday, all done via questing, instancing has been kept to the minimum, done twice each instance just to complete their quests and get to know the places. Must admit that so far I haven't really come across anything epic, but hey, I've almost completed only an area so far (Krasarang Wild) and anyway I've come across some amusing bits; I like how they're introducing all the Sha problem thought, quite curious to see how it evolves later.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:33 am

Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.


Just imagine Pandaria, with no flying until you are lvl 90... :shock: :shock: :D :D :D


Like it SHOULD be. Cataclysm was the only expansion that launched with us being able to fly right away.


No big deal to me. I dont' think it was a big deal not being able to fly right away in wotlk.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:41 am

Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:#5 -> This force fed routine makes me want to stab kittens.


Just imagine Pandaria, with no flying until you are lvl 90... :shock: :shock: :D :D :D


Like it SHOULD be. Cataclysm was the only expansion that launched with us being able to fly right away.


Good goblins can profit with or without flying... :-)
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:36 am

i am actually looking forward to not being able to fly again
i leveled all the way through OL before flight was 60, and had leveled a few toons to 80 before the BoA CWF and price nerf
(hell i didnt even get my epic land mount til i hit OL due to it being lvl 60)
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:39 am

degre wrote:Just dinged 88 yesterday, all done via questing, instancing has been kept to the minimum, done twice each instance just to complete their quests and get to know the places. Must admit that so far I haven't really come across anything epic, but hey, I've almost completed only an area so far (Krasarang Wild) and anyway I've come across some amusing bits; I like how they're introducing all the Sha problem thought, quite curious to see how it evolves later.


The story part of that zone is pretty great. I really felt the no flying pains in Kun-Lai summit. The place is huge, but luckily the quests are pretty self-contained in their hubs.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:36 am

Flying mounts is something we all thought we wanted, not realising how negatively it would effect the game. They are fun but they make the world feel empty, small and devoid of secrets.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:52 am

Lieris wrote:Flying mounts is something we all thought we wanted, not realising how negatively it would effect the game. They are fun but they make the world feel empty, small and devoid of secrets.


I agree with that, the only imbalance is then letting 90's fly. - Oh! There's a mining node! Oh.. and a horde rogue just flew in an grabbed it...

Eliminate flying overall, and I'd totally agree.. :D
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:57 am

halabar wrote:
Lieris wrote:Flying mounts is something we all thought we wanted, not realising how negatively it would effect the game. They are fun but they make the world feel empty, small and devoid of secrets.


I agree with that, the only imbalance is then letting 90's fly. - Oh! There's a mining node! Oh.. and a horde rogue just flew in an grabbed it...

Eliminate flying overall, and I'd totally agree.. :D

well you cant really do that now that we have flying mounts

did you bitch when 70s could fly in BC or 77+ in Wrath?

they happened to level faster then you, not their fault
so why punish them?
after all its your personal choice to level via mining/herbing instead of questing
its kinda like saying remove flying form from druids cause one just picked an herb before you due to not having to switch out of flight form
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:03 pm

bldavis wrote:
halabar wrote:
Lieris wrote:Flying mounts is something we all thought we wanted, not realising how negatively it would effect the game. They are fun but they make the world feel empty, small and devoid of secrets.


I agree with that, the only imbalance is then letting 90's fly. - Oh! There's a mining node! Oh.. and a horde rogue just flew in an grabbed it...

Eliminate flying overall, and I'd totally agree.. :D

well you cant really do that now that we have flying mounts

did you bitch when 70s could fly in BC or 77+ in Wrath?

they happened to level faster then you, not their fault
so why punish them?
after all its your personal choice to level via mining/herbing instead of questing
its kinda like saying remove flying form from druids cause one just picked an herb before you due to not having to switch out of flight form


why do you think I have a druid herber now? if you can't beat them...

but to the point that Lieris made, if you have flying that fast, some of the mystery is lost..

And... if they want people to enjoy the leveling process, then the reward of flying which creates the rush is counter-intuitive.

Wrath and BC were a bit different, since that 60-70, and 70-77 took a little while longer.

And who said I was bitching?
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:17 pm

halabar wrote:I agree with that, the only imbalance is then letting 90's fly. - Oh! There's a mining node! Oh.. and a horde rogue just flew in an grabbed it...

Eliminate flying overall, and I'd totally agree.. :D


sounds like bitching to me (mildly so but still)

im fine with having level 90 only flying, there is a rush no matter what as there will always be ppl who dont give a shit about the story and just want to be max level
you eliminate flying and you will def piss more ppl off then you did with pandas and pokewow

you hit 90 and rushed through the story, ok
i want to enjoy the story and if the cost of that is i get fewer nodes, oh well
its the same thing if you are farming on a toon with only reg flying and someone with epic flying beats you to one
they put out the cash/effort to get there faster then you

its kind of hard to put off flying much longer without raising the level cap, and someone will still blow through everything not paying attention to the story at all and will still beat you to that mining node
plus one of the main draws for a collector like me is doing the cloud serpent chain and getting my own mount that i raised
yes its more dailies, but its the kind of thing that appeals to me
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:45 pm

[quote="bldavis"]sounds like bitching to me (mildly so but still) /quote]

really... I was just making a point to Lieris's point... chill
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:49 pm

halabar wrote:really... I was just making a point to Lieris's point... chill

/palm
like i said, mildly so

i was just making a point as well, not trying to make arguments or personal attacks
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:00 pm

It's not really a moan, just more an observation. It's obvious we can't put the genie back in the bottle but I still think we can look back at its implementation with a critical eye. It has definitely killed world PVP and I liked all the little secrets Azeroth used to have.

Now if they get rid of the disk on the new cloud mount and coloured it yellow I will change my mind on flying mounts. :D

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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 pm

Lieris wrote:It's not really a moan, just more an observation. It's obvious we can't put the genie back in the bottle but I still think we can look back at its implementation with a critical eye. It has definitely killed world PVP and I liked all the little secrets Azeroth used to have.

Now if they get rid of the disk on the new cloud mount and coloured it yellow I will change my mind on flying mounts. :D

Image


Monks already have something like that... he looks like a monk. Problem solved. :D
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:08 pm

halabar wrote:Monks already have something like that... he looks like a monk. Problem solved. :D


I am months behind on MOP stuff. >_< Time to do some digging.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:12 pm

Glyph of Zen Flight, sitting on a small grey cloud. Very slow, though - 60% speed.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:50 pm

I just had a look on Youtube for it; that's one tiny cloud.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Jarvick » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:11 pm

quote="Pyrea"]
Which completely makes sense in two ways:

1)They realize they're starting to lose their original playerbase who are older now and are moving away from the game for whatever reason and they're keeping the game going by changing their target demographics.
2)People complained in Cata (myself included) that there is literally nothing to do in game. More options however dumb they seem are options nonetheless.


You are right, Pokomon and Farmingville is better then nothing, I still miss the old PvP (Warlord titles, I was always in PvP trying to better myself during my down time from raiding pre-BC)


I was actually a little surprised that Monks weren't a hero class. I guess they decided they didn't like the "start at a higher level" paradigm. But I think that the prospect of leveling a monk from 1-90 will turn a lot of people off of the class, at least as their main. Plus thematically it would have made more sense for them to start at 75, maybe with 75-85 on the Wandering Isle. That would have skipped the wonky story - "you're a level 1 pandaren monk from the wandering isle, now go re-live the cataclysm from a few years ago!"


I know I wont be lvling one, 90 lvls after I get my three toons to 90, outfitted. just do not see it happening, I am making a toon to quest with my GF, who is new to the game, but thats to keep her company and not a real desire to want to make a new toon to lvl.


Someone said flying mounts, ever since they introduced flying mounts into the world (Not Outlands and Not North Rend) but Azeroth, I think it was a mistake, the world use to feel big, but now very small.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby masterpoobaa » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:41 pm

the world use to feel big, but now very small.


And with my main: Crusader Aura + 310% speed mount = flying direct on my sparklepony is always faster than using the flightpaths.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Levantine » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:11 pm

And you get to do it in style
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