So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

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So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:24 am

...not that it matters, personally, but I wonder. In the last 4 or so quarters, they specifically said that they are losing most of the subscription in the East of the world while they are quite stable in the West (specifically Europe and NA).

I wanted to ask people's opinion about this fact: what do you think is making Asian people quit WoW?

Is it the casualization?
The game is getting more and more casual friendly, discouraging extended gameplay which Asians quite like and are used to (just think of the difference between asian MMOs and western ones).
As a result, I suppose people used to invest large amounts of time in games get bored quickly and stop playing: it's no longer necessary to farm hours for flasks and food when the guild can provide with minimal effort cauldron and feasts, and pretty much everything you can gain in the game is capped in some way.

Or is it the bots?
I also thought however, that asia has been well known for the large investment in botting and farming in general. However, with Blizzard banning bots every now and then, and the farming in game becoming pretty much useless since there's nothing worth farming besides herbs / mines, I thought maybe great part of those losses are by farming companies that quitted farming/botting and invested their time in hacking and such.

Just some random thoughts, anyone has any idea to share?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Koatanga » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:43 am

While there are a lot of Asian gold-sellers, I don't know that the stereotype extends far enough to account for a sizeable portion of the paying player base in Asia.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby degre » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:33 am

In part the game is just old, doesn't matter to me when I'm having fun if the game was released this morning or 10 years ago, and I mean, I played the first Starcraft for almost 10 years straight, but there are plenty of people out there that won't play something if it's too old, and WoW definitely qualifies.

Also Cata killed the buzz for many, that's one of the reason they are presenting easier heroics a la WotLK; WotLK was a faceroll and people loved it, Cata's heroics were hard and people moved away. While I enjoy tough and challenging content, the vast majority play for randomly clicking something for the purpose of seeing flashy pixels on their screens and have colourful rewards, wiping isn't part of their fun.

Top that with Diablo being released and tons of people moving away while the expansion is dead to have some fun there, probably a good chunk of farmers moved too due to the potential of the RMAH, also end of the expansion makes many people take a break.

I'd say looking at the numbers now is tough, next quarter should give a better idea.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Archeth » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:47 am

But but... don't you see, clearly the numbers were highest when WoW was least accessible!

Joke aside, I wonder if the "subscription" structure in Asia has something to do with it. The usual "summer + Diablo 3 + MoP beta + Cataclysm is clearly over" are good reasons for everyone, but some people in the west paid months in advance. If you're only paying playtime or daily or whatever, it's much easier to abruptly quit/take a break.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:44 am

Well... let's look at my 2 guilds.

Alliance: Total losses that I am aware of in last 6 months, 0. RL is thinking about stepping down due to burnout and real-life issues, and a few other guys have schedule issues due to real-life.

Horde: Total losses in last 6 months, at least 4. Shoju, a just legendary rogue due to burnout, GM to Diablo, another three are MIA since Diablo, and a ton more recent no-shows.

But looking at Panda, it's going to be a casual grindfest. 8 reps to grind for all kinds of things, valor bonus for your alts if you cap on your main, and all sorts of toys for the kids, and kids at heart.

Will it build it back up? no. Will it stem the tide for a while? probably.

Regarding the Asians... what other games are out in their market that would take people away from WoW?
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:54 am

I only have had experiences with Lineage II and Aion and they left me shocked about how totally different their game thinking is.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Archeth » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:13 am

It's the metagame too. RMT, botting, account sharing, that all is just par for the course for them.

The most interesting comparison to me was when western EVE players went to play Chinese EVE, however.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:39 am

Enlighten us with your experience? :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:59 am

I'm really curious to see the sub numbers after MoP is realeased. I personally don't believe that the bounce back will be as high, but I could be interpreting that through my own lens/perspective.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Blackharon » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:07 pm

Shoju wrote:I'm really curious to see the sub numbers after MoP is realeased. I personally don't believe that the bounce back will be as high, but I could be interpreting that through my own lens/perspective.


This - I'm not even tempted to return to the game by the expansion. Neither is 3/4 of my former guild. I can't imagine they'd have too many re-subs. I honestly hope new subs will make up for it so there's a chance for a newer (and ultimately better) expansion afterwards!
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby masterpoobaa » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:28 pm

Figures are out on mmo-champ.
Last quarter wow lost 1.1mill subs... But I imagine many/most? Are due to D3.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Teranoid » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:04 am

Imagine that.. a game going on 8 years old is losing players.

Couldn't be because it's old. Nah.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby masterpoobaa » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:41 am

Subs will come back up with panda like every expansion. WoW keeps on keeping on.
Myself I've gone full circle - noob, scrub, casual raider, quasi hardcore raider, quit, resub and back to noob/scrub :)
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Archeth » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:34 am

I guess they brought this on themselves by inflating their numbers with Asian/Chinese subscriptions ever since the game launched there with a not-at-all-comparable subscription model, but alas. Now everytime they lose a lot of players (even if they claim it was mostly Asian customers), people automatically take that as proof that their current model isn't working for anyone at all.

Whether or not numbers will go back to 12 million users highly depends on what exactly makes Asian players stop paying. I can imagine MoP will reinforce Western to roughly WotLK/Cata numbers again with resubs, new players making up for quitters (and honestly I'll never understand the people who'll quit over pet battles and pandas, that's just... dumb, sorry), but I'm not so sure about Asian ones.

Although with GW2 around the corner, I'm probably on the way out myself, due to several mechanics/game system changes I'll never agree with.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Jarvick » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:14 am

masterpoobaa wrote:Subs will come back up with panda like every expansion. WoW keeps on keeping on.
Myself I've gone full circle - noob, scrub, casual raider, quasi hardcore raider, quit, resub and back to noob/scrub :)



I am with you on this, I am coming back full circle, a noob all over again. But as somone said a game that is 8 years old, is just that getting old, Pet combat, etc is gimmick and will get old fast, it all comes to the same thing over and over. New Expansion, move level cap, make old raiding gear (that raiders worked hard for, for months on end no good) to do new raid which is kill new boss by not standing in stuff on the floor, etc. Its always the same thing, I am just hoping being away for a 1 1/2 will give me a new kinda feel once I start back playing.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fivelives » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:34 am

Old game is old. Nothing in WoW is new and shiny anymore - call it the 7 year itch. I imagine that's what they expected, and is probably why they started development on an unannounced MMO a couple of years ago. That belief was reinforced when they opened up the year-long agreement deal.

Any expansion past Cata is probably just cash grabbing via formula anymore, and I'm pretty sure that there's going to be a continued drop-off in subscriber numbers.

My only question is, will the next MMO they put out be World of Warcraft 2? Or will it be based off Starcraft or Diablo instead. I'd bet on Starcraft as a pvp-centric MMO with 3 factions.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:35 am

They've repeatedly said the MMO known as Titan wil be an entirely new IP.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fivelives » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:40 am

I doubt it'll be an entirely new IP, despite what they've been saying.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:40 am

Fivelives wrote:I doubt it'll be an entirely new IP, despite what they've been saying.

same here
and i am betting it will be starcraft based as well

set either before SC1, or after the protoss xpack for SC2
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:31 am

A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:33 am

Worldie wrote:A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)

well its either WoW 2, Diablo MMO, SC MMO, or new IP
im not sure ppl would want a WoW 2, the lore is so fucked up as it is

Diablo...not much else to do, plus i cant see a dungeon crawler becoming an MMO that well (then again i cant see an RTS turning MMO, but we have WoW)

iirc, bungie was developing it with Blizz, and aren't they famous for Halo? (i know its some space-esque shooter) which has me leaning towards SC MMO

fixes the faction pvp issues of WoW, has a steady following already, and can provide alot of variety in gameplay (which would be nice)

i can already see the classes/roles for each race

marine - ranged, maurader - tank, firebat - melee and medic (duh) for terran, w

zerg - roach (tank) hydra (ranged) zergling (melee) and queen as healer?

protoss - zealot - melee dps, immortal - tank, sentry - heals/ranged dps, and stalker - ranged dps

there are even mounts in game too! (with a lil tweaking)
helions and siege tanks as ground mounts, maybe a drop ship as a flying mount? or a viking?
zerg flying mounts could be overlords/mutas with land mounts being ultralisks?
and protoss you have colossi and warp prism/phoenix

they even have a built in portal system with nydus worms and warping in for protoss
the terran have hyper space on capital ships :?


now that i have all this out, it will be really weird if this is what they do :?
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:43 am

Worldie wrote:A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)


It would be awesome for a while, but unless they address gear inflation in an entirely different way, it wouldn't have the legs that WoW has. (Is that your ilvl 595 laser gun, or are you just happy to see me..)

Fantasy is pretty crowded now, and would be too close to WoW. Space has been done. Halo-war-type would be limiting.

The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Torquemada » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:45 am

I'm going to be very interested to see what they do to tie Heart of the Swarm into WoW... like perhaps an annual pass, but maybe not for an entire year because you're still only buying 1/3rd of the campaign. After 2 years in South Korea, with cable tv that had not one, but TWO channels dedicated to StarCraft and that was even before SC2 came out... yeah, say goodbye to a few more Asian players when that finally drops.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:47 am

halabar wrote:
The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.

there was an MMO that totalbiscuit covered with a steampunk setting

looked cool



that and i have no faith in blizz to pull steampunk off right

edit: found the video!
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:54 am

bldavis wrote:
halabar wrote:
The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.

there was an MMO that totalbiscuit covered with a steampunk setting

looked cool



that and i have no faith in blizz to pull steampunk off right


On one hand you could say they have the resources, on the other hand I might be 65 before it comes out..

But after the mild dissapointment with SC2, and then the same pattern for D3, there is certainly room to raise doubt if Blizz could ever create another new IP hit in today's market. (Then again, no one else is either... WoW may be the exception to the rule).
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