Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
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Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
I've been trying to do a little theory crafting on tank stats taking values from the beta.
I did a quick google and couldn't find any other posts on the subject, so I thought I'd ask here.
I've checked my work half a dozen times, but I just cant find where I've gone wrong.
Has anyone else done any work on mitigation for Mists of Pandaria.
Does anyone else have any number for the value of Mastery, Dodge, Parry, and Hit?
(Where I've gotten so far)
Judgment (6 second cooldown)
Crusader strike (4.5 second cooldown) now both generate holy power.
Crusader strike has a 20% chance to generate an additional holy power through Grand Crusade.
With 7.5% chance to miss and 15% chance to be dodged / parried you get 22.5% holy power loss.
So the paladin now has a holy power generation rate of 0.14 hp/s(j) + 0.18 hp/s(cs) + 0.04 hp/s(gs) = 0.35 hp/s
SotR takes 3 holy power and grats you 38% damage reduction for 3 seconds after use, increased by mastery.
Therefor you will use SotR and gain it's buff once every 8.48 seconds, for 3 seconds .
Giving you 38% damage reduction for 3 / 8.48 = 35.37% of the time.
This means the damage reduction per point of mastery is reduced by 64.63% for SotR, and 70% for Block
Combat ratings:
Dodge  888 rating = 1% dodge
1 Dodge rating = 1.13*103% dodge
1 Dodge rating = 1.13*103% damage reduction......(A)
Parry  888 rating = 1% parry
1 Parry rating = 1.13*103% parry
1 Parry rating = 1.13*103% damage reduction......(B)
Mastery  597 = 1% damage reduction from SotR buff + 1% chance to block
1 Mastery rating = 1.68*103% SotR + 1.68*103% Block
1 Mastery rating = 5.92*104% Damage reduction (SotR) + 5.03*104% Damage reduction (Block)
1 Mastery rating = 1.09*103% Damage reduction......(C)
Up at +7.5% hit the value of master starts to overtake dodge / parry
0.43 hp/s (the original values 15%) = Sotr 3 seconds / 7.96 seconds = 37.68% of the time
Therefore with 7.5% hit the damage reduction per point of mastery is reduced by 62.32%
Giving:
Mastery  597 = 1% damage reduction from SotR buff + 1% chance to block
1 Mastery rating = 1.68*103% SotR + 1.68*103% Block
1 Mastery rating = 6.31*104% Damage reduction (SotR) + 5.03*104% Damage reduction (Block)
1 Mastery rating = 1.13*103% Damage reduction......(D)
This means that 7.5% hit increases the damage reduction of each point of mastery you have by (6.31*104%  5.92*104%) = 3.86*105%......(D)  (C) = (E)
1% hit = 340 hit rating
7.5% hit = 2550 rating = 3.86*105 damage reduction per point of mastery
1 hit rating = 1.52*108% damage reduction for each point of mastery you have......(E) / 2550 = (M)
With the armor value of hit and mastery being the same. 1 gem = 320 hit or 320 mastery.
Then the point at which 1 hit + 1 mastery = 2 mastery is..
Damage reduction from 2 Mastery (2.19*103%).......(Y)
Damage reduction from 1 Hit (1.52*108 * Mastery Rating) + 1 Mastery (1.09*103%)......(Mx + C)
The point where y=Mx+C
Y = 2 * C
Y  C = Mx
C = Mx
C / M = x
x = 72259.81 Mastery
I'm assuming something here is wrong only because it was originally stated for MoP that Hit stats would be valuable for tanks.
If you can find my error, or have the correct value to hand I'd love it if you could share.
I did a quick google and couldn't find any other posts on the subject, so I thought I'd ask here.
I've checked my work half a dozen times, but I just cant find where I've gone wrong.
Has anyone else done any work on mitigation for Mists of Pandaria.
Does anyone else have any number for the value of Mastery, Dodge, Parry, and Hit?
(Where I've gotten so far)
Judgment (6 second cooldown)
Crusader strike (4.5 second cooldown) now both generate holy power.
Crusader strike has a 20% chance to generate an additional holy power through Grand Crusade.
With 7.5% chance to miss and 15% chance to be dodged / parried you get 22.5% holy power loss.
So the paladin now has a holy power generation rate of 0.14 hp/s(j) + 0.18 hp/s(cs) + 0.04 hp/s(gs) = 0.35 hp/s
SotR takes 3 holy power and grats you 38% damage reduction for 3 seconds after use, increased by mastery.
Therefor you will use SotR and gain it's buff once every 8.48 seconds, for 3 seconds .
Giving you 38% damage reduction for 3 / 8.48 = 35.37% of the time.
This means the damage reduction per point of mastery is reduced by 64.63% for SotR, and 70% for Block
Combat ratings:
Dodge  888 rating = 1% dodge
1 Dodge rating = 1.13*103% dodge
1 Dodge rating = 1.13*103% damage reduction......(A)
Parry  888 rating = 1% parry
1 Parry rating = 1.13*103% parry
1 Parry rating = 1.13*103% damage reduction......(B)
Mastery  597 = 1% damage reduction from SotR buff + 1% chance to block
1 Mastery rating = 1.68*103% SotR + 1.68*103% Block
1 Mastery rating = 5.92*104% Damage reduction (SotR) + 5.03*104% Damage reduction (Block)
1 Mastery rating = 1.09*103% Damage reduction......(C)
Up at +7.5% hit the value of master starts to overtake dodge / parry
0.43 hp/s (the original values 15%) = Sotr 3 seconds / 7.96 seconds = 37.68% of the time
Therefore with 7.5% hit the damage reduction per point of mastery is reduced by 62.32%
Giving:
Mastery  597 = 1% damage reduction from SotR buff + 1% chance to block
1 Mastery rating = 1.68*103% SotR + 1.68*103% Block
1 Mastery rating = 6.31*104% Damage reduction (SotR) + 5.03*104% Damage reduction (Block)
1 Mastery rating = 1.13*103% Damage reduction......(D)
This means that 7.5% hit increases the damage reduction of each point of mastery you have by (6.31*104%  5.92*104%) = 3.86*105%......(D)  (C) = (E)
1% hit = 340 hit rating
7.5% hit = 2550 rating = 3.86*105 damage reduction per point of mastery
1 hit rating = 1.52*108% damage reduction for each point of mastery you have......(E) / 2550 = (M)
With the armor value of hit and mastery being the same. 1 gem = 320 hit or 320 mastery.
Then the point at which 1 hit + 1 mastery = 2 mastery is..
Damage reduction from 2 Mastery (2.19*103%).......(Y)
Damage reduction from 1 Hit (1.52*108 * Mastery Rating) + 1 Mastery (1.09*103%)......(Mx + C)
The point where y=Mx+C
Y = 2 * C
Y  C = Mx
C = Mx
C / M = x
x = 72259.81 Mastery
I'm assuming something here is wrong only because it was originally stated for MoP that Hit stats would be valuable for tanks.
If you can find my error, or have the correct value to hand I'd love it if you could share.
 Ashyen
 Posts: 3
 Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:10 pm
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
You may find these two blog posts useful:
http://sacredduty.net/2012/06/05/mopma ... ild15739/
http://sacredduty.net/2012/06/13/mopma ... ild15739/
The numbers have changed slightly now that we have clearer estimates of dodge/parry values (and the correct parry DR equation), but I haven't had time to write them up. Here's what I cranked out earlier today:
http://sacredduty.net/2012/06/05/mopma ... ild15739/
http://sacredduty.net/2012/06/13/mopma ... ild15739/
The numbers have changed slightly now that we have clearer estimates of dodge/parry values (and the correct parry DR equation), but I haven't had time to write them up. Here's what I cranked out earlier today:
 Code: Select all
armor 0.3431 (multiply by 4 for itemizationweighted value)
dodge 1.8235
hit 0.7369
exp 0.7369
haste 0.5289
mastery 1.3527
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7716
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Perfect, just what I was looking for, thank you.
No idea where I went wrong then, probably somewhere in my HP/s calculation.
That's largly irrelevant though, so long as someone smarter than me already has the answer I'm happy to use their numbers
No idea where I went wrong then, probably somewhere in my HP/s calculation.
That's largly irrelevant though, so long as someone smarter than me already has the answer I'm happy to use their numbers
 Ashyen
 Posts: 3
 Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:10 pm
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Well, I think many of your premises are wrong. For example, 1% dodge isn't 1% damage reduction because of diminishing returns, competing effects (block, armor), and so on. But most of that is covered well enough in the blog post, if you're interested.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7716
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
theckhd wrote: Here's what I cranked out earlier today:
 Code: Select all
armor 0.3431 (multiply by 4 for itemizationweighted value)
dodge 1.8235
hit 0.7369
exp 0.7369
haste 0.5289
mastery 1.3527
That's a very useful summary, thanks. What's the story with parry at the moment? I remember something you read about how we would be stacking it much more than dodge but it sounded so extreme, maybe it's been changed? In your code above, do we just value it like dodge?
 econ21
 Posts: 1373
 Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
You should give Thecks blog a read the the part 3 he linked has pretty graphs so us simple folk can understand
I think it ends up meaning we want 23 times more parry than dodge getting closer to 3 the more gear we have, I'm fairly sure we get more parry from strength in mop so even before re forging I'm guessing we'll have considerably more parry than dodge.
I think it ends up meaning we want 23 times more parry than dodge getting closer to 3 the more gear we have, I'm fairly sure we get more parry from strength in mop so even before re forging I'm guessing we'll have considerably more parry than dodge.
Daishan of <Nidor Amo Nex>
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett

daishan  Maintankadonor
 Posts: 551
 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
 Location: UK
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
I think it ends up meaning we want 23 times more parry than dodge getting closer to 3 the more gear we have, I'm fairly sure we get more parry from strength in mop so even before re forging I'm guessing we'll have considerably more parry than dodge.
^
With my Cataclysm reforging (dodge and parry close to equal when raidbuffed) my stats on the beta at level 88 are about 6% dodge and something ridiculous like over 20% parry.
Fetzie  Protection Paladin  EUKazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long

Fetzie  Posts: 2173
 Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Hadn't realized it was quite that extreme O.o
Btw if your still level 88 you might be able to help them over in the MATLAB with test #29 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32803
Btw if your still level 88 you might be able to help them over in the MATLAB with test #29 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32803
Daishan of <Nidor Amo Nex>
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett

daishan  Maintankadonor
 Posts: 551
 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
 Location: UK
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Yeah, we'll have a lot more parry than dodge. However, keep in mind that the amount of parry rating may still be pretty close to our dodge rating. They've mentioned that the DR curve was designed to compensate for all the extra parry granted by strength. Whether it does that properly or not is an open question, since they changed the conversion factors slightly.
If there are any level 90's in nearraid gear on beta, I could use a little data from you to finetune those stat weights. Ilvl, hit/exp, dodge/parry/block values from the character sheet mostly.
If there are any level 90's in nearraid gear on beta, I could use a little data from you to finetune those stat weights. Ilvl, hit/exp, dodge/parry/block values from the character sheet mostly.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7716
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
If you still need data for #29, tell me, I'm currently at the target dummy practicing retribution anyway.
Fetzie  Protection Paladin  EUKazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long

Fetzie  Posts: 2173
 Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
I think the primary problem with #29 is that there are no L90 dummies? Or have they been implemented finally?
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7716
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
now you mention it...yep, is still level 80. Damn. Well that explains the lack of avoided/missed hits. Presumably the same effect could be obtained by attacking a dummy that is 2 levels above oneself, regardless of the actual level? So a level 23 attacks a 25 dummy, level 58 attacks a level 60 dummy, that kind of thing?
Last edited by Fetzie on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fetzie  Protection Paladin  EUKazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long

Fetzie  Posts: 2173
 Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Derp... I'll leave setting the tests to the smart ppl
Daishan of <Nidor Amo Nex>
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett

daishan  Maintankadonor
 Posts: 551
 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
 Location: UK
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
Pyrea wrote:So a level 23 attacks a 25 dummy, level 58 attacks a level 60 dummy, that kind of thing?
Yup, basically. But since we only have 85 and 93 dummies (ignoring the lower levels), we either need an 83 or a 91. Or an 88, if they put in level 90 dummies.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7716
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Mists of Pandaria protection stats.
There are level 3 dummys in the starting areas, could I just make a level 1 and use them? wouldn't be able to use a tomahawk though.
Fetzie  Protection Paladin  EUKazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long

Fetzie  Posts: 2173
 Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
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