A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:38 pm

Did I do something wrong? Damage from SoR is risible. Has it always been this bad?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:31 pm

Finished -- I think, unless there's something extra that I forgot.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Tengrilethos » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:07 pm

Hello,

I can offer an Lvl 90 human Paladin on Mekkatorque for tests.

Please tell me how I can help :)

Greets
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:40 pm

So, I'm back from vacation, but I probably will not get a chance to comb through logs and do more fitting until tomorrow. However, I plan on catching up on all of the testing tomorrow, and hopefully I'll have some preliminary DPS numbers for the thread that GC posted in (my earlier estimates were about 40k DPS in 450-ilvl gear, iirc, but that's not accounting for the censure/CS nerfs).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:42 pm

Tengrilethos wrote:Hello,

I can offer an Lvl 90 human Paladin on Mekkatorque for tests.

Please tell me how I can help :)

Greets
Tengri

Check the first page of this thread. I'll clean it up tomorrow, but tests #3-6, 21, and 27 are still needed. I think the rest are already covered.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:44 pm

theckhd wrote:So, I'm back from vacation, but I probably will not get a chance to comb through logs and do more fitting until tomorrow. However, I plan on catching up on all of the testing tomorrow, and hopefully I'll have some preliminary DPS numbers for the thread that GC posted in (my earlier estimates were about 40k DPS in 450-ilvl gear, iirc, but that's not accounting for the censure/CS nerfs).


Well, Censure lost 1.7k dps per tick, and CS is down 0.9k dps not considering the weapon damage modifier.

Also, I need to shut up and stop prodding GC... I think i've done more harm than good on those threads...
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:31 pm

I'll dive in tomorrow to see if I can help.

Here's the latest (simple) single-target rotation comparison calculations. I say "simple" because this is obviously not an exhaustive list, doesn't include L90 talents, etc. All of that is working, but my first goal is to get the underlying mechanical stuff fixed and get all the calculation files updated (for example, the ability damage calculation might be useful for that thread, to compare average hit size from different abilities).

The gear set for these simulations is a 450-ilvl set of blues.

Code: Select all
2.00% hit, 5.00% exp

|    |                               |    DPS |   SHPS |   SS/EF | Empty |    HPG |
| Q# | Priority                      | V=100% | V=100% | Uptime% |  GCD% |     /s |
|  1 | SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW         |  37704 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  2 | SotR5>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW         |  37496 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3701 |
|  3 | SotR5>HotR>J>AS>Cons>HW       |  38252 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  4 | SotR5>J>CS>AS>Cons>HW         |  36513 |      0 |     0.0 |  15.1 | 0.3384 |
|  5 | SotR5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW     |  37611 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3754 |
|  6 | ^WB>^SS>SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW |  36994 |   4875 |     1.0 |   5.9 | 0.3735 |
|  7 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>HW               |  30205 |   6628 |     0.0 |  20.4 | 0.3770 |
|  8 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW          |  33554 |   6676 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  9 | WoG5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW      |  33508 |   6600 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3754 |

2.00% hit, 5.00% exp

|    |                               |    DPS |   SHPS |   SS/EF | Empty |    HPG |
| Q# | Priority                      | V=100% | V=100% | Uptime% |  GCD% |     /s |
|  1 | SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW         |  35853 |   6560 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  2 | SotR5>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW         |  35652 |   6534 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3701 |
|  3 | SotR5>HotR>J>AS>Cons>HW       |  36402 |   6560 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  4 | SotR5>J>CS>AS>Cons>HW         |  34826 |   5977 |     0.0 |  15.1 | 0.3384 |
|  5 | SotR5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW     |  35764 |   6548 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3754 |
|  6 | ^WB>^SS>SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW |  35152 |  11404 |     1.0 |   5.9 | 0.3735 |
|  7 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>HW               |  28646 |  12482 |     0.0 |  20.4 | 0.3770 |
|  8 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW          |  31992 |  12545 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3797 |
|  9 | WoG5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW      |  31946 |  12466 |     0.0 |   7.4 | 0.3754 |

7.50% hit, 7.50% exp

|    |                               |    DPS |   SHPS |   SS/EF | Empty |    HPG |
| Q# | Priority                      | V=100% | V=100% | Uptime% |  GCD% |     /s |
|  1 | SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW         |  41014 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4146 |
|  2 | SotR5>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW         |  40774 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4040 |
|  3 | SotR5>HotR>J>AS>Cons>HW       |  41614 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4146 |
|  4 | SotR5>J>CS>AS>Cons>HW         |  39658 |      0 |     0.0 |  14.9 | 0.3692 |
|  5 | SotR5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW     |  40898 |      0 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4094 |
|  6 | ^WB>^SS>SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW |  40221 |   4889 |     1.0 |   5.8 | 0.4077 |
|  7 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>HW               |  32449 |   7237 |     0.0 |  20.2 | 0.4116 |
|  8 | WoG5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW          |  36054 |   7288 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4146 |
|  9 | WoG5>CS>AS+>J>AS>Cons>HW      |  35999 |   7198 |     0.0 |   7.3 | 0.4094 |
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Schroom » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:28 pm

mh... comparing the first 3

3>2>1

3 and 1 are almost identical, except that you replace HotR with CS.

does this mean that HotR does more damage than CS even on single target? WoW. I don't think this is intended tho... I guess GC will fix that, probably, knowing GC, by nerfing HotR instead of buffing CS back up ^^
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:57 am

I see you're working on Eternal Flame, do you need me to get EF data for the other gearsets? (#2 and #4), specially considering that EF seems to be all over the place.

Also, apparently there is a bug with EF where it doesnt consume BoG stacks
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:15 am

It has been written in blue post that EF right now is not affected by BoG but it will be in the next beta build.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:41 am

Its not affected by BoG but it still ticks for 50k with full vengeance?
Sacred shield "caps" at about 42k for me, but on the plus side you have huge WoGs aswell, however very holypower heavy.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:34 am

Klaudandus wrote:I see you're working on Eternal Flame, do you need me to get EF data for the other gearsets? (#2 and #4), specially considering that EF seems to be all over the place.

Also, apparently there is a bug with EF where it doesnt consume BoG stacks

No, it's fine. The data fits the tooltip more or less perfectly already. I did have to correct some of your Censure data and extract the Holy Prism AoE heal information. Interesting conclusions from that, by the way. More soon-ish (probably after lunch).

Worldie wrote:It has been written in blue post that EF right now is not affected by BoG but it will be in the next beta build.

It's the other way around - it's affected by BoG but isn't consuming the stacks when it's cast. I have evidence of this in Klaud's data set. If I had mastery values for the 9 gear sets, I'd be able to confirm that it's getting the full linear scaling (it's definitely getting more than 10% per stack, at least).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:37 am

By the way, did we ever confirm WoG's formula? I can't even remember. If you have time, another test I could use is chain WoGs (1HP is fine) and self-cast Holy Prisms (i.e, cast HP on yourself rather than the dummy). They could be done together. Preferably without SoI active.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:47 am

i dont think so, i'll work on that later, i got a good two hrs to mess with things before raid

Also, I really can't tell where I messed up with censure on the spreadsheet, WoL lists censure at 6424.9, but you have it at 6510.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 am

The numbers were way off before I fixed them - take a look at the 6:29 AM revision, which is before I fixed things. The damage values actually went down with increasing AP in a few cases.

Also note that for Censure, WoL is averaging in the ticks that occur before you complete the 5-stack, which brings the average down. For Censure, you have to go to the log browser and pick out the steady-state 5-stack value (which is easy, since the damage only varies by one at most).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:49 am

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah~!
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:08 am

Fitting of Klaud's latest data sets:
CS: expected 130% weapon damage + 913
Code: Select all
cs_fit =

     General model:
     cs_fit(x) = 0.6504*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =         1.3  (1.299, 1.301)
       b =       913.1  (912.1, 914.1)

cs_gof =

           sse: 0.0031
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 1
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0558

Had to only use the first 3 data points again, due to PvP gloves, but the final 3 data points perfectly match the 5% extra multiplicative scaling. Tooltip confirmed again.

Censure: expected (126+0.11*sp)*5 = 630 + 0.55*sp
Code: Select all
cens_fit =

     General model:
     cens_fit(x) = a*x+b
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.5501  (0.5499, 0.5502)
       b =       629.9  (628.9, 630.9)

cens_gof =

           sse: 0.9455
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 4
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.4862

Tooltip confirmed.

Seal of Truth: expected 14% weapon damage (unnormalized)
Code: Select all
sot_fit =

     General model:
     sot_fit(x) = a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        0.14  (0.14, 0.14)

sot_gof =

           sse: 0.0033
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 5
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0255

No question here, still 14% unnormalized weapon damage


Seal of Righteousness: Expect 5% weapon damage
Code: Select all
sor_fit =

     General model:
     sor_fit(x) = a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =     0.04999  (0.04997, 0.05002)

sor_gof =

           sse: 0.0161
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 6
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0517

I had to exclude one point for this fit, since it was obviously wrong. It was considerably off of the perfect fit to the other 7 data points. I haven't looked into what caused the problem, but to be honest I don't care all that much - it's clear this is working as advertised.


Holy Prism: expected (12412 + 1.098*sp) based on tooltip
Code: Select all
hp_fit =

     General model:
     hp_fit(x) = 1.098*x+b+10000
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        1230  (1198, 1262)

hp_gof =

           sse: 4.6415e+003
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 5
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 30.4679


hp_fit2 =

     General model:
     hp_fit2(x) = 1.098*x+b+10000
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        3567  (3502, 3633)

hp_gof2 =

           sse: 1.9583e+004
       rsquare: 0.9998
           dfe: 5
    adjrsquare: 0.9998
          rmse: 62.5831

Both very good fits with the advertised scaling. Range of 11230-13567 for base damage gives an average of 12400, which is within 0.1% of the advertised 12412. Tooltip confirmed.

We can also fit the healing component when cast on an enemy:
Code: Select all
hpt_fit =

     General model:
     hpt_fit(x) = a*x+b
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.8235  (0.8212, 0.8257)
       b =        8377  (8362, 8392)

hpt_gof =

           sse: 213.9595
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 4
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 7.3137

hpt_fit2 =

     General model:
     hpt_fit2(x) = a*x+b
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.8244  (0.8043, 0.8445)
       b =  1.018e+004  (1.005e+004, 1.031e+004)

hpt_gof2 =

           sse: 1.6786e+004
       rsquare: 0.9997
           dfe: 4
    adjrsquare: 0.9996
          rmse: 64.7811

The interesting part here is that we're getting ~(8377-10180)+0.823*SP, when we're expecting 8374+0.74*SP. However, the results we're seeing are consistent with the (8374-10234)+0.823*sp on the other half of the tooltip. In other words, the aoe healing observed matches the formula for the aoe damage we're supposed to be doing when we use Holy Prism to heal a friendly target. In my ability_model file, I already have a formula from an earlier mmo-champ database entry that is consistent with what we're observing in the logs, and I vaguely remember a mmo-champ diff showing that they swapped the formulas on the secondary effects. I'm not sure what happened - whether they swapped it and failed to update the tooltip, or whether they accidentally swapped things in the tooltip when they didn't mean to. Either way, I think this data confirms which formula we're seeing, it's just not clear whether it's a bug or not. Once we have the complementary Holy Prism data I asked for, we'll have a clearer idea of what's going on here.

Eternal Flame: expect (4030-4491)+0.377*sp per holy power
Code: Select all
ef_fit =

     General model:
     ef_fit(x) = 3*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.3771  (0.3702, 0.3839)
       b =        4050  (4007, 4093)

ef_gof =

           sse: 9.1315e+003
       rsquare: 0.9999
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 0.9999
          rmse: 55.1710


ef_fit2 =

     General model:
     ef_fit2(x) = 3*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.3798  (0.3716, 0.388)
       b =        4450  (4398, 4502)

ef_gof2 =

           sse: 1.3121e+004
       rsquare: 0.9999
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 0.9998
          rmse: 66.1338

We don't quite reach each extreme thanks to the limited nature of the data set, but it's good enough to feel pretty confident that the tooltip isn't lying to us.

We also fit the ticks, which should be 1393*0.16*sp per holy power:
Code: Select all
eft_fit =

     General model:
     eft_fit(x) = 3*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        0.16  (0.1599, 0.16)
       b =        1393  (1393, 1393)

eft_gof =

           sse: 0.4090
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.3692

Tooltip confirmed.


Seal of Insight: expect 0.15*ap+0.15*sp = 0.45*sp
Code: Select all
soi_fit =

     General model:
     soi_fit(x) = a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        0.45  (0.4499, 0.45)

soi_gof =

           sse: 0.8189
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 7
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.3420

Tooltip confirmed.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:10 am

The reason why Prism doesn't fit when it comes to the healing is because the prism data was from before the latest build, where it saw a nerf. Only the healing part of EF was nerfed on the latest builds (the same one where CS and Censure got hit)

The Prism data was collected 2 days before that build.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:09 pm

Was that a stealth-nerf? Because it doesn't show up on mmo-champ's beta build diff.

<edit> nevermind, I found it in build 15851, the one before the CS nerfs.

If you don't mind posting the build # with data sets from now on, that might be helpful in avoiding this sort of confusion.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 pm

Another interesting note: apparently EF, HP, and SoI's healing aren't affected by the 5% increase to healing spells granted by SoI. Not sure if that's a bug or intended (hopefully intended, since I would rather not be tanking with SoI).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:46 pm

theckhd wrote:Was that a stealth-nerf? Because it doesn't show up on mmo-champ's beta build diff.

<edit> nevermind, I found it in build 15851, the one before the CS nerfs.

If you don't mind posting the build # with data sets from now on, that might be helpful in avoiding this sort of confusion.


sounds good.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:53 pm

Blue confirmation of armor DR formula: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... e=130#2593

DamageReduction = TargetArmor / (TargetArmor + 4037.5*AttackerLevel – 317117.5)

Very consistent with the values I worked out empirically based on melee data. Changes the level 93 dummy reduction factor from 0.6504 to 0.6507, which has no effect on the CS data.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:02 pm

Here you go. Some WoGs were with 2HP, hope it doesnt affect much, and I was also pressing WoG on Divine Purpose proc, at least most of the time
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Here you go. Some WoGs were with 2HP, hope it doesnt affect much

Well, it'll throw off all of the averages and make it annoying to pick out min and max values... but I can probably still get what I need out of it.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm

blah, I was doing it kinda hurried out as I have a raid (should be pulling soon)...

i can redo the logs tomorrow if you prefer not to work with these...
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