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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby halabar » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:35 am

crazyharry wrote:
Shoju wrote:
and their current "big deal" is that in some countries it is illegal to be a practicing Christian (or at least that is what the spin is, I haven't investigated myself).


Intriguing, just looked into it. It would seem there is a list of 51 countries where it is illeagal to be a christian floating about. Further investigation shows it is perfectly legal to be a Christian in these countries but Christians are a minority and in some of them suffer all the shit minorities have to put up with.

The closest I could find to it actually being true is in some islamic countries it is illegal to convert from Islam to Christianity and the punishments vary from country to country ranging from a weary shrug to the death penalty.


If you really want to discuss that, instead of dismissing it, I'll dig up details.

What you fail to mention is that in many of those countries, like China, if you don't go to the "state" church, you are subject to being put in jail at their whim. Or in Indonesia, where it's perfectly legal, but the local islamic mob is likely to come around and burn your church, your house, and chop your family to bits.

Or you could talk about several countries in central west africa, where it's basically a religious civil war.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby halabar » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:37 am

And it's In-N-Out fries (nevermind that irony) but they have to be hot.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby bldavis » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:11 am

another example (albeit a bit extreme) would be something that happened in the US
in Missouri in the 1830s (i think, might be the 40s) there a governer's order for the extermination of mormons
iow, you could be killed for even being thought of as a mormon, or living in a mormon town

LGBT can at least live in peace (most places)
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:37 pm

halabar wrote:
crazyharry wrote:
Shoju wrote:
and their current "big deal" is that in some countries it is illegal to be a practicing Christian (or at least that is what the spin is, I haven't investigated myself).


Intriguing, just looked into it. It would seem there is a list of 51 countries where it is illeagal to be a christian floating about. Further investigation shows it is perfectly legal to be a Christian in these countries but Christians are a minority and in some of them suffer all the shit minorities have to put up with.

The closest I could find to it actually being true is in some islamic countries it is illegal to convert from Islam to Christianity and the punishments vary from country to country ranging from a weary shrug to the death penalty.


If you really want to discuss that, instead of dismissing it, I'll dig up details.

What you fail to mention is that in many of those countries, like China, if you don't go to the "state" church, you are subject to being put in jail at their whim. Or in Indonesia, where it's perfectly legal, but the local islamic mob is likely to come around and burn your church, your house, and chop your family to bits.

Or you could talk about several countries in central west africa, where it's basically a religious civil war.


And that's even better. With pastor's going out and saying that they should round up the gays and put them in prison camps, and that they should beat their children for being gay. Yes. truly. This is the type of problem that Christianity is faced with, and the reason that churches, and parishioners need to take a step back, and realize that their opinions about the gay community are bordering on the same type of opinions that they are in a tizzy about in other countries.

If you worry about your christian brother around the world who is dealing with hardships, yet agree with people voicing their desire to impose those same hardships on people in your own country, there is a problem.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Fivelives » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:03 pm

It's not the people of our generation that you have to change. It's the same people who call us every time their VCR clock is flashing 12:00, or who try to pass stupid laws saying that video game violence causes real life violence, or any number of stupid decisions.

Those are the people whose viewpoints need to change. We joke about the old people that sit on their lawns with rock salt-loaded shotguns shouting "GET ORF MY LAWN" here on this forum, but those are the people who are overwhelmingly against gay marriage. They're the most likely to be religious, conservative, and any number of other labels that add up to one thing: against LGBT rights.

And pretty much everything from the time the emancipation proclamation was signed into law until the end of segregation is the civil rights battle.

Lasting change takes time, in any area you can think of. In cases of public opinion, that means we're talking in generational terms. Be patient, it'll happen.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby katraya » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:33 pm

Shoju wrote:
And that's even better. With pastor's going out and saying that they should round up the gays and put them in prison camps, and that they should beat their children for being gay. Yes. truly. This is the type of problem that Christianity is faced with, and the reason that churches, and parishioners need to take a step back, and realize that their opinions about the gay community are bordering on the same type of opinions that they are in a tizzy about in other countries.

If you worry about your christian brother around the world who is dealing with hardships, yet agree with people voicing their desire to impose those same hardships on people in your own country, there is a problem.


While I completely agree with your argument and think it makes total logical sense I don't see it going very far. To these people they're following the one true religion while gay people are an abomination who will spend eternity burning in hell. Most people who are against gay marriage for religious reasons aren't going to empathize with gays because gays are wrong and they're right.

Logic isn't going to breach that wall. I wish it would though.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Lightbeard » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:
A response from Chipotle:
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Is this for real? Cuz... L.O.L.


Fairly sure this is a fake quote, just off of what I tried to research on it.

I can't find anything on anyone named Rodrigo Chipotle, and a commentor on the imgur post of this picture posted this

As someone who works at Chipotle, I call fake. There is no "Rodrigo Chipotle". It was started by Steve Ells. They drill it into our heads.


It also doesn't come across as something a business such as Chipotle would or could openly say without receiving some kind of media attention.


If someone pointed this out already feel free to post a slowpoke.jpg
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:47 pm

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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:55 pm

katraya wrote:
Shoju wrote:
And that's even better. With pastor's going out and saying that they should round up the gays and put them in prison camps, and that they should beat their children for being gay. Yes. truly. This is the type of problem that Christianity is faced with, and the reason that churches, and parishioners need to take a step back, and realize that their opinions about the gay community are bordering on the same type of opinions that they are in a tizzy about in other countries.

If you worry about your christian brother around the world who is dealing with hardships, yet agree with people voicing their desire to impose those same hardships on people in your own country, there is a problem.


While I completely agree with your argument and think it makes total logical sense I don't see it going very far. To these people they're following the one true religion while gay people are an abomination who will spend eternity burning in hell. Most people who are against gay marriage for religious reasons aren't going to empathize with gays because gays are wrong and they're right.

Logic isn't going to breach that wall. I wish it would though.



And as we have seen from several members here, Gays are right, and anyone who follows religion is some sort of mouth breathing idiot worthy of scathing criticism. It goes both ways.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:05 pm

Hey, I try to strike a balance! So don't lump me with the loonies on either side!
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:09 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Hey, I try to strike a balance! So don't lump me with the loonies on either side!


Oh no, I'm not lumping anyone in on either side, just that we have seen that both sides can at times be unreasonable right here. Hell, I see the perspective of both sides, and there are those on both sides that are just not willing to speak without hurling insults, while simultaneously complaining about the other side throwing insults.

My statement wasn't meant to encompass all of either side, just pointing out that the converse is also true.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:15 pm

Actually, I knew I was not amongst them... just hard to convey slight sarcasm through text. XD
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Gab » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Shoju wrote:Oh no, I'm not lumping anyone in on either side, just that we have seen that both sides can at times be unreasonable right here. Hell, I see the perspective of both sides, and there are those on both sides that are just not willing to speak without hurling insults, while simultaneously complaining about the other side throwing insults.

My statement wasn't meant to encompass all of either side, just pointing out that the converse is also true.


Look at what he said and where he said it. It wasn't even reasonable to post it so why would you think he would get any less than he did? He was defending a "mouth breathing idiot", guilty by association. All that was said was:

Skye1013 wrote:Chick Fil A is anti-gay.
This makes me a sad panda.


You're not lumping anyone in on either side? Weird cause I thought you said...

Shoju wrote:And as we have seen from several members here, Gays are right, and anyone who follows religion is some sort of mouth breathing idiot worthy of scathing criticism.


SMH...

Edit: Spelling and We must have been reading different threads, because there was nothing even remotely close to that kind of a statement made.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:43 pm

shoju has a point though. some people resorted to ad hominem... as much as i dont agree with poptart, i never resorted to call him names...
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:20 pm

I think calling gay people the same thing as murderers, adulterers and thiefs is far worse than name calling.
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