Karazhan Health Req

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Postby kalbear » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:58 pm

Druid healing is just like any other healing. The only thing is that their HoTs don't give mana back, so you might end up getting less via SA. That can hurt.

Really, saying that a pally healer can do a heroic ramp run and a druid healer can't doesn't make sense to me. They're one person, each. We don't know gear, we don't know spec, we don't know how good the people are. Healing matters quite a bit.
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Postby blitzshark » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:59 pm

I agree with you there, I have only run once with a druid healer. I was the only non-guildie. Geared pretty much with what I currently have. I was told the druid had +900 healing. But i never inspected or anything. It just frustrated me because I knew I could tank the place.
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Postby Exodius » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:55 pm

kalbear wrote:Druid healing is just like any other healing. The only thing is that their HoTs don't give mana back, so you might end up getting less via SA. That can hurt.


I'm pretty sure Lifebloom was giving me mana back. And by extension of this, all the other HoTs likely were too.

I was tanking heroic SP and there were some 3-4 mob pulls where I did not need any healing at all apart from the prehots. :?

It's just HoT's don't heal as much individually. Getting back 10 mana from a HoT tick is not nearly as noticable as getting back 900 from a 9k crit greater heal/holy light. :P

At least, that's my take, I could be wrong. :P

Getting back to the OP, 10k unbuffed health and uncrittable is absolute minimum to start in Karazhan.

Ideally it's 10k health, uncrit and uncrushable. But that will come with time. The first few bosses you can survive with the previous minimum.

As gear keeps building up though (and don't just expect free loot from Kara, there is equal or better loot from heroics and badge rewards) you should get higher and higher numbers though.

Remember, Uncrit first, then 10k health, then uncrushable, then back to health. ;)

And as for the 500 point healer, sounds like a shadow priest to me. If you are worried about requirements, get people to either clear a heroic or clear Arcatraz normal from the start to the end - don't just go in on a party ID after the place is cleared and get the key. If they can't do that they probably are not ready for Kara. :P
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Postby adese » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:27 am

Exodius wrote:
kalbear wrote:Druid healing is just like any other healing. The only thing is that their HoTs don't give mana back, so you might end up getting less via SA. That can hurt.


I'm pretty sure Lifebloom was giving me mana back. And by extension of this, all the other HoTs likely were too.


HoTs do give you mana, just like normal heals, just not when you're full...but that's no different than normal heals, really.
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Postby kalbear » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:08 pm

HoTs do give you mana, just like normal heals, just not when you're full...but that's no different than normal heals, really.
There was at least one kind of heal I was receiving from druids where the ticks were not giving me any mana back. At least this was according to my scrolling text (which normally does show mana returned). I could be wrong and would be happy to be so, but I've seen this on other healing spells too. An example is the healing totem; I've never received mana back from those heals.

And no, I was most definitely not full on mana.
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Postby jere » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:14 pm

kalbear wrote:
HoTs do give you mana, just like normal heals, just not when you're full...but that's no different than normal heals, really.
There was at least one kind of heal I was receiving from druids where the ticks were not giving me any mana back. At least this was according to my scrolling text (which normally does show mana returned). I could be wrong and would be happy to be so, but I've seen this on other healing spells too. An example is the healing totem; I've never received mana back from those heals.

And no, I was most definitely not full on mana.


The druid heals you are referring to are probably lifebloom related. Some of the healz are counted as "your heals" so they won't give mana back. Probably the same with PoM and Earthshield, but I honestly have never looked. Rejuv and Regrowth do give mana back when they heal, so it is probably lifebloom.
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Postby kalbear » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:02 pm

The druid heals you are referring to are probably lifebloom related. Some of the healz are counted as "your heals" so they won't give mana back. Probably the same with PoM and Earthshield, but I honestly have never looked. Rejuv and Regrowth do give mana back when they heal, so it is probably lifebloom.
Honestly, I have no idea. On the big heals I get mana back, but on those ticks I don't. Next time I'll pay more attention to what specific heal I get and state it.

I remember noticing this from the shaman who put the healing totem out and I got nothing from it. Since then I've seen it with a couple spells here and there that appear to all be HoTs. I apologize if I overgeneralized.
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Postby Uthadanin » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:01 am

kalbear wrote:If you're uncrittable and uncrushable you're going to have a good amount of HP. If you're not uncrushable you should have more. If you're not uncrittable you shouldn't be there at all.


Vanifae is right... I'm only level 68 and I've already passed 10k unbuffed. oO
Yeah, but you have nothing for defense or avoidance. Sorry Nicos, but saying that you're at 10.5k HP when you've got 406 def isn't all that special. :p


how about 471 defense with 10493 health unbuffed. its not hard to do @ 68 at all.

Don't remember my gearing @ 68 exactly, but I am an enchanter and everyone of my gearing pieces had +def in it somwhere. +stam enchants on everything and pre +18 shield.
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Postby Aberdon » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:50 pm

Just hit 13k unbuffed and am now clearing kara.

Granted we've only killed Prince 1x but hey, it counts damnit.

Nightbane was easier.... damn crappy infernal placement.

I started kara with 12.3 K unbuffed, so it's definitely doable.

edit
It appears the armory is still broken.
Ignore my sig. It hasn't been updated in months.

/sighs
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Postby Erutaron » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:46 pm

I am currently sitting at 10.9k HP, 495 Def, 88% avoidance w/ Holy shield (no libram)

I personally am not comfortable walking into Kara at this level, but that is more on a personal level then anything.

In the gear set that I want to start Kara with, according to warcrafter, I will be at 12k unbuffed/uncritable/uncrushable/200+ Spell Dmg.

I personally don't think my goals are unrealistic.
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Postby Corynthia » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:49 am

blitzshark wrote:No agruement there. I have a list of good healers in my friends list. The example that caused me to question healing was tanking H ramparts. Did it no problem with a pally healer then the next day tried with a druid. Same gear and group build except the healer.


You know, actually, there are two potential problems I can see. First is that your druid wouldn't come out of tree form. It's been said before, but but in a heroic, they really need to be able access those direct heals.

Second, I recently tried Heroic Ramparts as my first heroic, and it wa humbling. We got through 6-7 pulls with about 3 wipes, and then called it. We went in without any CC, although I did have an offtank, and our healer was well-geared shaman, with a shadow priest in tow (I had no idea how limited MC was going to be -.-)

Anyway, in retrospect, I think the big problem in Heroic Ramparts are all the mobs that stun. There's one in particular (I want to say a ravager) that throws a stun at the start of the battle, and if you're tanking more than one mob, you start to eat everything because you're not blocking, dodging, etc.

I was pretty confident about my gear and my HP, and I even flasked up because I was excited. Altogether, I was at 489 Defense with about 15k buffed hp, and they just tore through me. I expected to be able to handle at least 2 mobs at once, but anything with three mobs devastated me.

After a look at the facts, I was just trying to tank too much at once, and we weren't taking those every-pull stuns very seriously. Maybe it was a problem with strategy. -.-
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Postby Aberdon » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:38 am

Erutaron wrote:I am currently sitting at 10.9k HP, 495 Def, 88% avoidance w/ Holy shield (no libram)

I personally am not comfortable walking into Kara at this level, but that is more on a personal level then anything.

In the gear set that I want to start Kara with, according to warcrafter, I will be at 12k unbuffed/uncritable/uncrushable/200+ Spell Dmg.

I personally don't think my goals are unrealistic.


They're not unrealistic at all. Like I said, with the majority of my gear Heroic Badge gear and epic crafted items, you'll hit that number easily.

Just have to put the time in to hit those goals.
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Postby Samuelus » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:24 pm

proactive healers are good to know ( they anticipate you taking damage and start casting before you do)

Re-active healers need to L2P or repsec...

and 8 sec cast time is 6 seconds too long..
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Postby Gowron » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:20 am

I have the feeling people tend to be to carefull :)

When I started Kara (I was the guilds first Kara-MT), I had 10.7k hp, 200spelld, 492 defense, and about 95% avoidance. This was pre 2.3., and I was using BoSanc instead of BoK :)

The fact that Combat Expertsie now gives us 10% more health, does not mean that tankadins should have more than 11k health, it would be strange if they hadn't, but it is not necessary.

As Tankleader in my guild, I wont take a crittable tank (MT/OT) into kara. This way, kara becomes a sort of reward for becoming uncrittable :), and healers dont like to see your life-bar being halved :)

And if a tank has 490 defense (415 for druids) he probably also has enough hp.
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Postby Mortiran » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:05 pm

12257 with kings and I am able to tank curator
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