Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the EU

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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:54 am

Wasn't aware of that. I haven't particularly cared about achievements since, well, achievements Became A Thing. I also haven't cared about mounts, either.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:02 am

Darielle wrote:You're aware that Mimiron's Head was a guaranteed drop for Alone in the Darkness before Cataclysm hit, right? And Invincible was a guaranteed drop for Light of Dawn. Crusader's pony thing was also a guaranteed for Tribute to Immortality.

The fact that people now either can't possibly or can't realistically obtain them is what makes the ones that people DO have valuable - and 98% of the ones that do have them obtained them as a reward for skill in facing those fights and winning.


OF course, they might show up in the BMAH now.. :D
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Shoju » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:28 am

halabar wrote:
Darielle wrote:You're aware that Mimiron's Head was a guaranteed drop for Alone in the Darkness before Cataclysm hit, right? And Invincible was a guaranteed drop for Light of Dawn. Crusader's pony thing was also a guaranteed for Tribute to Immortality.

The fact that people now either can't possibly or can't realistically obtain them is what makes the ones that people DO have valuable - and 98% of the ones that do have them obtained them as a reward for skill in facing those fights and winning.


OF course, they might show up in the BMAH now.. :D


/vomits

Please god no.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Lieris » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:20 pm

With this huge lull in content there are so many groups selling mounts every week (and lots of people with several hundred thousand gold with nothing to spend it on) that the Cata mounts are fairly meaningless now. I am due another 35K~ gold tomorrow. I don't think there was anything that came even close to the prestige of the realm first titles in WotLK, the TOGC mounts and the old Amani bear in Cata. The only person that looks at your FOS achievements is yourself so the Sinestra achievement (and the 0% achievements in MOP if they don't award a mount or title) have much less value.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:04 pm

Shoju wrote:
halabar wrote:
Darielle wrote:You're aware that Mimiron's Head was a guaranteed drop for Alone in the Darkness before Cataclysm hit, right? And Invincible was a guaranteed drop for Light of Dawn. Crusader's pony thing was also a guaranteed for Tribute to Immortality.

The fact that people now either can't possibly or can't realistically obtain them is what makes the ones that people DO have valuable - and 98% of the ones that do have them obtained them as a reward for skill in facing those fights and winning.


OF course, they might show up in the BMAH now.. :D


/vomits

Please god no.


While I don't give a rip about Invincible, I'd buy Mimron's Head in a flash. And since both are still percentage drops from those bosses, I have no qualms about it as well. So some pug gets lucky in an Uld25 tribute run, and you don't want it sellable in the BMAH?

What I really want from the BMAH along with that is the BRK-1000, which I hope shows up, and is currently unobtainable.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:33 pm

Shoju wrote:
halabar wrote:
Darielle wrote:You're aware that Mimiron's Head was a guaranteed drop for Alone in the Darkness before Cataclysm hit, right? And Invincible was a guaranteed drop for Light of Dawn. Crusader's pony thing was also a guaranteed for Tribute to Immortality.

The fact that people now either can't possibly or can't realistically obtain them is what makes the ones that people DO have valuable - and 98% of the ones that do have them obtained them as a reward for skill in facing those fights and winning.


OF course, they might show up in the BMAH now.. :D


/vomits

Please god no.

Not really sure why you care anymore. I'll probably never be able to afford one from the BMAH, but I haven't been farming it forever either. If I ever end up with any, then I'll be happy to have gotten them. Also, aren't all those mounts potentially obtainable through the incentive bags from RDF? This would just be one more RNG way to get one (since I doubt they'd show up with any sort of regularity.)
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Darielle » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:35 pm

The raid mounts can't be gotten from RDF. The only way to get them right now is killing Alone in the Darkness or Light of Dawn. The ToGC one isn't obtainable at all since Tributes got removed.
I highly doubt they'll be put into BMAH. Blizzard has a thing with wanting to make new mounts, not find new ways to repackage old ones. With account-wide, the people that do have them will be more visible anyway. And since almost all of them are already technically obtainable and rare, I doubt they'll fold the OLD raid mounts into the BMAH - any more than they'd put Ashes or A'lar in there.

It's funny though; even with just how available the Cataclysm mounts are, and post-Geyser nerf, I believe there are less Pureblood Firehawks than there are Handmaidens.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:18 pm

Didn't the screenshot of the BMAH actually have Ashes of A'lar on it? Or am I misremembering...
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Darielle » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:45 pm

Yeah Ashes is there.

What I was trying to say was "I don't know if they'll put in mounts that were guaranteed and then made exclusive, as opposed to mounts that were always RNG", and I didn't wake up fully before I typed that.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:48 pm

Half-asleep ramblings... almost as bad as drunken ones :lol:
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Shoju » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:30 am

I don't mind ashes being on there, because it was always a percentage drop.

Putting something on there that at one time was a guaranteed drop for doing something REALLY hard, that they made a random drop from doing it on the "REALLY HARD" setting, to preserve the integrity of it to an extent, would really just be counterintuitive.

I would have preferred them make invincible and mim's head go away just like the original war bear.

I care, because while I don't play the game anymore, I know many people still do, and I am a human, and I have an opinion.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:51 am

Shoju wrote:I don't mind ashes being on there, because it was always a percentage drop.

Putting something on there that at one time was a guaranteed drop for doing something REALLY hard, that they made a random drop from doing it on the "REALLY HARD" setting, to preserve the integrity of it to an extent, would really just be counterintuitive.

I would have preferred them make invincible and mim's head go away just like the original war bear.

I care, because while I don't play the game anymore, I know many people still do, and I am a human, and I have an opinion.


The hardest thing about Yogg now is getting enough bodies to do it... Same is going to be true for LK once the xpac hits. It's simply a rare drop now, on the order of how rare Ashes are.

And considering how many people bought the war bear, I don't know if that's a great comparison.

The best comparison might actually be the gun I want, the BRK-1000, which was harder to get than Mim's Head, and is no longer available. Not as sexy, but much harder to get.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Shoju » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:42 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:I don't mind ashes being on there, because it was always a percentage drop.

Putting something on there that at one time was a guaranteed drop for doing something REALLY hard, that they made a random drop from doing it on the "REALLY HARD" setting, to preserve the integrity of it to an extent, would really just be counterintuitive.

I would have preferred them make invincible and mim's head go away just like the original war bear.

I care, because while I don't play the game anymore, I know many people still do, and I am a human, and I have an opinion.


The hardest thing about Yogg now is getting enough bodies to do it... Same is going to be true for LK once the xpac hits. It's simply a rare drop now, on the order of how rare Ashes are.

And considering how many people bought the war bear, I don't know if that's a great comparison.

The best comparison might actually be the gun I want, the BRK-1000, which was harder to get than Mim's Head, and is no longer available. Not as sexy, but much harder to get.


I would assume with MoP coming out, the guaranteed drop from DW:H, and Rag:H will also be taken down to a random drop.

Tales of purchased bear mounts are greatly over exaggerated.

And "You only need enough people for Yogg 25" is also certainly flawed. I most assuredly wiped out on Yogg No Lights 25, at 85, with 25 people, while tanking on Onisu.

Yes. People bought them, but it still isn't some super common mount. It is a perfectly logical comparison. Ashes of Alar was NEVER a reward for skill. It was simply always a Rare drop Mount, similar to the reins from Alysrazor, or the drake from Ultraxion. I don't mind, nor do I think that most of the community minds, if those mounts end up on the BMAH. Not a big deal. Grats for having the gold.

But I feel that Mim's head, and Invincible should stay off the BMAH just as strongly that I feel that the Gladiator drakes need to be account bound if we are going to make the glory of the... mounts account bound, or even the ashes, mim's head, or invincible. While those can now be had with less skill and more RNG involved, it doesn't mean that at one time, it wasn't a show of skill to have those. Gladiator Mounts have always been skill. The list of people who actually "bought" their way to Gladiator Status would be incredibly finite, certainly smaller than the number of people who have gone back and gotten the Glory of the... Mounts afterwards.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Shoju wrote:But I feel that Mim's head, and Invincible should stay off the BMAH just as strongly that I feel that the Gladiator drakes need to be account bound if we are going to make the glory of the... mounts account bound, or even the ashes, mim's head, or invincible. While those can now be had with less skill and more RNG involved, it doesn't mean that at one time, it wasn't a show of skill to have those. Gladiator Mounts have always been skill. The list of people who actually "bought" their way to Gladiator Status would be incredibly finite, certainly smaller than the number of people who have gone back and gotten the Glory of the... Mounts afterwards.


/handsShojumorerocksalt

Key words - "at one time". If it is available as an RNG drop now, I see it as fair game for the BMAH. (And I'm pretty sure that I did Yogg-0 in a pug not that long ago, without vent, so it's not THAT hard.)

Gladiator mounts are different.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:15 pm

And back to the whole point of this thread...

The key issue that really needs to be resolved by various governing bodies is: What defines "ownership" in a virtual world, if anything can be owned at all, and what are the requirements to maintain ownership, and how does that occur when a vendor controls the virtual world.

Shoju's clearly in the camp of there is no ownership at all, and that the developer of the world owns everything (and if I was a software developer I'd probably agree). But I think we are going to get to the point in virtual places (and in social media) that the issue needs to be addressed, and the rights or lack thereof can't simply be buried in a TOS/EULA.

We won't be able to address account selling under that underlying issue is resolved.
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