A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:44 pm

Should be much shorter than that. Seal of Righteousness should be basically constant with a Club, so just a few swings at each gear level will be necessary. Similarly with Insight. Hammer of Wrath has a damage range, so that will take more samples (50-100 casts in each gear set, so 5-10 minutes with each gear set). Light's Hammer and Execution Sentence seem to be constant, so 2-3 casts of each should be sufficient. Holy Prism has a damage range, so that's another one we'll need multiple casts of (and that one will be painful due to the long cooldown).

Ideally we'd have Naked, fully geared, and a few data points in-between. The extreme ends (naked and fully geared) are the most important.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:48 pm

ok, silly question, how can I test Hammer of Wrath? I remember there used to be an undying mob in blasted lands but was removed when cata arrived.

any idea on what to do?
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:48 pm

I think you can use the dummies at the argent tournament, if my memory is correct.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:50 pm

theckhd wrote:I think you can use the dummies at the argent tournament, if my memory is correct.


oh yeah! i guess it doesnt matter that they're lvl 80, right?
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:00 pm

It shouldn't, since HoW does spell damage rather than physical.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:03 pm

lvl 93 dummy armor - 24835
at least according to someone on the forums

caveat emptor - it's not official
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:48 am

Well, that isn't consistent with my earlier estimations. That gives me an armor mitigation factor of:
Code: Select all
>> 1-24835/(24835+25050)

ans =

    0.5022

Which is a lot lower than the 0.6545 we get from the melee swing data.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:53 am

Yeah, I didn't get a response from GC when I asked straight out in the beta analysis thread on the forums -- that's what I don't get about Blizz, they're asking for your analysis but they don't give out data that you guys can use to make all analysis better/easier.

It's not like it would be too hard for them to say "Lvl 93 dummy has this much armor"
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:57 am

I got the question regarding the prism -- what dummy should I use for that one, the lvl 93 dummy?
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:14 am

GC just confirmed the armor value for lvl 93 dummies
And yet, you never see Zeherah and GC anywhere at the same time. Coincidence? In any case, the number 24835 is correct.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ge=93#1853
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:31 am

Klaudandus wrote:I got the question regarding the prism -- what dummy should I use for that one, the lvl 93 dummy?

Any dummy should be fine, since it does spell damage.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:03 pm

OK, I think I've found the problem. Looking back at the data set you took for tlitp, I get a very similar physical damage reduction factor:
Code: Select all
Linear model Poly1:
     f(x) = p1*x + p2
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       p1 =      0.6504  (0.6502, 0.6505)
       p2 =           0  (fixed at bound)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 2.348
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.425


This is fitting observed max melee damage vs. theoretical max melee damage with a pure linear fit. The armor constant that tlitp came up with is what I get if I use the Cataclysm npc armor formula (which predicts 13452 armor for a level 93). GC's comment makes it clear that the old armor formula is no longer accurate.

Now that we know what the level 93 armor value is, we can work backwards to find K:
P=1-A/(A+K), with P=0.6504 and A=24835
Re-arrainging,
K=A*P/(1-P) = 46203.33.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Returning to the CS/HotR data:
Code: Select all
cs_fit =

     General model:
     cs_fit(x) = 0.6504*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =       1.718  (1.671, 1.764)
       b =        1049  (948.3, 1151)

cs_gof =

           sse: 9.7370e+003
       rsquare: 0.9993
           dfe: 6
    adjrsquare: 0.9991
          rmse: 40.2844


hotr_fit =

     General model:
     hotr_fit(x) = 0.6504*a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.2005  (0.2002, 0.2007)

hotr_gof =

           sse: 0.8558
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 7
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.3496


HotR fits very nicely with 20% weapon damage, so that's confirmed.

CS is still sort of weird. It seems like it's doing 170% normalized weapon damage rather than 160%. The intercept falls within the bounds - if I fix that in place, I get this:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 0.6504*(a*x+1123)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =       1.689  (1.662, 1.716)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.487e+004
  R-square: 0.9989
  Adjusted R-square: 0.9989
  RMSE: 46.09

Again, pretty consistent with about 170% normalized weapon damage. Are we sure you're not wearing any gear that buffs CS? We're seeing a ~5-6% increase in CS damage over what we're expecting. Otherwise I'd have to conclude that the tooltip is off based on this data.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:20 pm

*ponders*
Lemme guess, you see that deviation starting from set #4 onward, right?

I think the pvp gloves might have a 10% bonus to CS, but I can't fully recall.

Edit: just confirmed it
http://mop.wowhead.com/item=84834

I'll redo set#4 and onward, since it's from there that I started to wear that particular piece of gear.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11154
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:33 pm

5th data set, actually. I get a beautiful fit to the first 4 data points with 0.6504*(1.6*x+1123), but the 5th and onward are too high. I also get a beautiful fit to the 5th and later data points with 0.6504*(1.6*x+1123)*1.05. So I guess that removes the discrepancy - CS matches the tooltip exactly, and the PVP hands are still a multiplicative 5%.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest