A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
A problem I had with the sets I submitted a while back is that I didn't use a white shield, I used an epic shield... The original request had them asking for club as your weapon, they didn't mention a white quality shield  but I did use one for today's sets
It's possible I fucked up something on the previous sets  or rather, it's almost certain  considering I just logged in back to beta and verified that CS is giving me ~4778 damage
I'm thinking I probably equipped the epic pvp mace by accident
EDIT: Just went back and equipped the mace and the shield, and removed my str trinkets... I hit CS and almost matches the results of #5 from last week... I fail orz
It's possible I fucked up something on the previous sets  or rather, it's almost certain  considering I just logged in back to beta and verified that CS is giving me ~4778 damage
I'm thinking I probably equipped the epic pvp mace by accident
EDIT: Just went back and equipped the mace and the shield, and removed my str trinkets... I hit CS and almost matches the results of #5 from last week... I fail orz
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Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Theck : Sure enough, we've got blocked criticals. Much to my own amusement, even blocked glancing blows (which weren't there in early beta, IIRC). At this point it seems they went with the easy route, simply injecting another roll for any event that happens to deal damage in the first place.
Yet another glorious example of misinformation. Gotta love the man. Hell, I wonder how many people still believe that parryhaste is gone "because GC said so".
Yet another glorious example of misinformation. Gotta love the man. Hell, I wonder how many people still believe that parryhaste is gone "because GC said so".

tlitp  Posts: 556
 Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:25 pm
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Klaudandus wrote:It's possible I fucked up something on the previous sets  or rather, it's almost certain  considering I just logged in back to beta and verified that CS is giving me ~4778 damage
I'm thinking I probably equipped the epic pvp mace by accident
EDIT: Just went back and equipped the mace and the shield, and removed my str trinkets... I hit CS and almost matches the results of #5 from last week... I fail orz
That's fine, as long as the AP/SP values are correct. I'll just exclude the old results from my fits for weapondamagebased abilities. The new ones should span the space well enough to give me good results.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
good, just let me know if you need anything else, and g'luck with the moving.
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Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11025
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Just checking in  I'm not dead, the move went well, and I'm hoping to get some time to finish up the spell coefficient calculations in the next day or two. I'm over halfway done, but haven't gotten to look at them since last Thursday. So far, all of the ones I've finished match the wowdb tooltips exactly, which was more or less expected.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Xposted because it might be relevant
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 430?page=1
Some reports have prot pallies doing about 60% of a Blood DK, and (apparently due to a bug) 22% of what brewmasters do it.
Q:SOTR hits for about 1/4th of what it hits for on live. CS/HOTR also hit for much, much less.
A:If you post approximate damage numbers for those attacks along with your character level and average ilevel (just the average is fine), we can compare them to our numbers.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 430?page=1
Some reports have prot pallies doing about 60% of a Blood DK, and (apparently due to a bug) 22% of what brewmasters do it.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11025
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Your SotR data exactly matched the tooltip, 617+0.54*AP.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
theckhd wrote:Your SotR data exactly matched the tooltip, 617+0.54*AP.
Any idea why CS is hitting like a wet noodle?
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Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11025
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Not yet, I'm looking at that now. That was the ability I was working on when I had to pack up, and I didn't get a chance to work out the new armor reduction factor before I did that. I was hoping that would fix the discrepancy between data and tooltip.
<edit> but I can't seem to find level 93 armor values. I know I've seen them somewhere recently, but damned if I can find them now that I need them...
<edit> but I can't seem to find level 93 armor values. I know I've seen them somewhere recently, but damned if I can find them now that I need them...
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Ok, can't find the armor data, but I can extrapolate based on the melee data. From the max melee swings, I can infer that the physical damage reduction factor [K/(A+K), where K is the armor coefficient tlitp found earlier (25050) and A is the target armor] is around 0.6545. Fitting the CS data with
y=0.6545*(a*x+1123)
gives me:
which isn't too bad given that my 0.6545 is just a rough estimate. We expect the coefficient to be 1.6 based on the tooltip.
y=0.6545*(a*x+1123)
gives me:
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x) = 0.6545*(a*x+1123)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.676 (1.648, 1.704)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 1.591e+004
Rsquare: 0.9988
Adjusted Rsquare: 0.9988
RMSE: 47.67
which isn't too bad given that my 0.6545 is just a rough estimate. We expect the coefficient to be 1.6 based on the tooltip.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
tangentially related
Yeah, we will try to add dodge from Agi to the Agi and dodge tooltips. Currently they’re just included in the title of each of those tooltips, which are final values after summing all of the sources and applying DR. The “(before diminishing returns)” line in the dodge tooltip, refers just to the “dodge of X adds Y% dodge” line, not the total. It’s somewhat confusing right now. All of this goes for Strength / parry as well.
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Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11025
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
All right, I've validated almost all of the spell details now. Luckily, they all pretty much match the tooltip values (if ones are given). Here's the breakdown for each spell. I'm skipping melee/CS/HotR for the moment, as those three depend on the exact armor mitigation factor. Data and fit information is here: https://sites.google.com/site/matlabadi ... fit_data.m
HammerNova:
Tooltip: (8401261) + 0.234*AP = (8401261) + 0.468*AP
Fits (min and max):
Result: data seems entirely consistent with tooltip values. Tooltip confirmed.
Seal of Truth:
Tooltip: 14% weapon damage
Fit:
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Censure:
Tooltip: (158+0.138*SP)*5 = 790 + 0.69*SP
Fit:
Result: Tooltip confirmed
Judgment:
Tooltip: 702 + 0.397*AP + 0.635*SP = 702 + 1.429*SP
Fit:
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Holy Wrath:
Tooltip: 4300+0.91*SP
Fit:
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Consecration:
Tooltip: No scaling info provided
Fit:
Result: Cons is 69+0.12*SP damage per tick, total of 690+1.2*SP per cast.
Avenger's Shield:
Tooltip: (40394937)+0.21*SP+0.545*AP = (40394937)+1.30*SP
Fits (min and max):
Result: Data seems entirely consistent with tooltip (to 95% CI). Tooltip confirmed.
Shield of the Righteous
Tooltip: 617 + 0.54* AP = 617 + 1.08*SP
Fit:
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
HammerNova:
Tooltip: (8401261) + 0.234*AP = (8401261) + 0.468*AP
Fits (min and max):
 Code: Select all
hanova_fit =
General model:
hanova_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.4685 (0.4676, 0.4694)
b = 1254 (1248, 1260)
hanova_gof =
sse: 181.8413
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 4.2643
hanova_fit2 =
General model:
hanova_fit2(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.468 (0.4665, 0.4696)
b = 847.9 (837.1, 858.7)
hanova_gof2 =
sse: 576.4841
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 7.5927
Result: data seems entirely consistent with tooltip values. Tooltip confirmed.
Seal of Truth:
Tooltip: 14% weapon damage
Fit:
 Code: Select all
sot_fit =
General model:
sot_fit(x) = a*x
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.14 (0.14, 0.1401)
sot_gof =
sse: 0.0533
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 7
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.0872
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Censure:
Tooltip: (158+0.138*SP)*5 = 790 + 0.69*SP
Fit:
 Code: Select all
cens_fit =
General model:
cens_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.6901 (0.69, 0.6901)
b = 790.2 (789.6, 790.8)
cens_gof =
sse: 1.6780
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.4096
Result: Tooltip confirmed
Judgment:
Tooltip: 702 + 0.397*AP + 0.635*SP = 702 + 1.429*SP
Fit:
 Code: Select all
j_fit =
General model:
j_fit(x) = 702+a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.429 (1.429, 1.429)
b = 0.2869 (1.154, 0.5804)
j_gof =
sse: 3.7250
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.6103
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Holy Wrath:
Tooltip: 4300+0.91*SP
Fit:
 Code: Select all
hw_fit =
General model:
hw_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.91 (0.91, 0.9101)
b = 4301 (4300, 4301)
hw_gof =
sse: 1.3406
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.3661
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
Consecration:
Tooltip: No scaling info provided
Fit:
 Code: Select all
cons_fit =
General model:
cos_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.12 (0.12, 0.12)
b = 68.98 (68.89, 69.07)
cons_gof =
sse: 0.0400
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.0632
Result: Cons is 69+0.12*SP damage per tick, total of 690+1.2*SP per cast.
Avenger's Shield:
Tooltip: (40394937)+0.21*SP+0.545*AP = (40394937)+1.30*SP
Fits (min and max):
 Code: Select all
as_fit =
General model:
as_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.299 (1.296, 1.303)
b = 4059 (4033, 4085)
as_gof =
sse: 3.2986e+003
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 18.1621
as_fit2 =
General model:
as_fit2(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.302 (1.297, 1.307)
b = 4895 (4861, 4930)
as_gof2 =
sse: 5.9482e+003
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 24.3889
Result: Data seems entirely consistent with tooltip (to 95% CI). Tooltip confirmed.
Shield of the Righteous
Tooltip: 617 + 0.54* AP = 617 + 1.08*SP
Fit:
 Code: Select all
sotr_fit =
General model:
sotr_fit(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.08 (1.08, 1.08)
b = 616.8 (616.1, 617.5)
sotr_gof =
sse: 2.6125
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.5111
Result: Tooltip confirmed.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
By the way, here's what I have for melee, CS, and HotR (phys). I'm using the melee max data to determine the armor coefficient, and using that to fit CS and HotR:
CS is a bit high at 1.7x weapon damage instead of 1.6x. Note that CS is based off of normalized weapon damage, while HotR is not. Once I have level 93 armor values, I'll use the exact values and see if I can do better.
 Code: Select all
melee_fit =
General model:
melee_fit(x) = a*x
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.6545 (0.6453, 0.6637)
melee_gof =
sse: 2.5220e+003
rsquare: 0.9991
dfe: 7
adjrsquare: 0.9991
rmse: 18.9814
cs_fit =
General model:
cs_fit(x) = 0.6545*(a*x+b)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 1.707 (1.661, 1.753)
b = 1043 (942.4, 1143)
cs_gof =
sse: 9.7370e+003
rsquare: 0.9993
dfe: 6
adjrsquare: 0.9991
rmse: 40.2844
hotr_fit =
General model:
hotr_fit(x) = 0.6545*a*x
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
a = 0.1992 (0.1989, 0.1995)
hotr_gof =
sse: 0.8558
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 7
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.3496
CS is a bit high at 1.7x weapon damage instead of 1.6x. Note that CS is based off of normalized weapon damage, while HotR is not. Once I have level 93 armor values, I'll use the exact values and see if I can do better.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
By the way, I wouldn't mind a data set with which to test Seal of Righteousness/Insight, Hammer of Wrath, Holy Prism, Execution Sentence, and Light's Hammer. Bonus points if you can test Sacred Shield / Eternal Flame somehow.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Ok, I'll work on friday, or maybe tomorrow afternoon. (Got a raid in 20 mins =P)
Should I do the Naked + 7 for each Seal? Would 10 minutes of data per seal be enough or should I do 15 at least?
Should I do the Naked + 7 for each Seal? Would 10 minutes of data per seal be enough or should I do 15 at least?
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11025
 Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
 Location: Texas' Armpit
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