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Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the EU

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Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the EU

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:36 am

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/eu- ... eam-origin

Relevant summary quote:

The Court of Justice of the European Union declared on Tuesday that, just as someone can take the DVD or Blu-ray disc copy of a video game and sell that to someone else with no legal obligation to the game’s publisher or creator, the same goes for digital licenses to games.


So what do you think this will mean for Blizzard, with their zero tolerance policy on account transfers? Will it even have a chance to spill over into the US from the EU?
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:48 am

DVD copy of WoW != WoW account.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:58 am

I often read the term licence in that article - don't they imply licence as in the key we use? as opposed to our account?

If I were Blizz', that's how I'd sell it "Ok, so you're saying I must make it possible for someone to use someone's else key, as long as the previous owner doesn't use it?" and then transfer the right and the key from Bnet account to Bnet account.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:24 am

From what I understand, this concerns the key that you use to add a game to your battle.net account (in the case of blizzard). This law would give you the right to be able to request that a license be removed from your account, and sell that to another person. Presumably this would then come with the characters created on that WoW license.

Apparently they are also going to hear a case on online DRM and the resale of digital licenses soon too.

In other news, ACTA has been rejected by the European Parliament.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18704192
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:03 am

Worldie wrote:DVD copy of WoW != WoW account.


It's talking about the digital media, not the physical. It's always been legal to sell/trade/give away your wow install disks, but this ruling makes it legal to transfer the digital bit to someone else. Basically, you'll be able to sell used digital games.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:35 am

But that still isn't the same as the account. WoW is free to download for anyone as it is, so I don't see this having any affect at all on wow. That ruling also seems to provide an out for those using a subscription model because they aren't "granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period"

That said, I don't think it's ever been illegal to sell either the account or the software (EULAs aren't laws), just not easily doable for digital based distributions and the publisher can try to block it. This ruling does say that the author can not oppose such a transaction, though I don't know if that means they have to make it doable.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:31 am

It ought to be interesting to see, either way. There's nothing in the ruling that would block it, and it could be argued that the game is part and parcel with the account. After all, you can download the game for free just fine, sure - but you can't play it without the account.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:26 pm

Tecnically you can, trial accounts are free.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:40 pm

I don't think that'll hold water at all. I doubt anyone in their right mind would even try to argue that a demo version could ever compare to the full paid version of games.

So how about all the people who have Steam libraries chock full of games they bought and beat the living daylights out of? Why should we be restricted in digital media transfers when physical media is unrestricted? I've got a ton of games on Steam that I bought and beat nine ways from Sunday. Is it fair that I can take, say, my Xbox 360 version of Dragon Age II down to Gamestop and sell it for a couple bucks when I'm done with it, but I can't do the same thing if I'd bought the same exact game via digital distribution?

And what about the broader consequences? I'm pretty sure that more games are sold used than new, so how will this affect brick and mortar stores that rely on people coming in to sell games? With the price of gas, I personally would much prefer being able to buy/sell/trade used digital games than having to drive across town to my "local(ish)" Gamestop, considering it's a 15 mile round trip and the cost of gas is higher than I'd get for trade in value on any game I'd be willing to let go (for reference, a round trip from my apartment here to Gamestop costs me roughly $2.35, and most of the games I've beaten badly enough that I no longer play them are only worth maybe $2).
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Epimer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:32 pm

Fivelives wrote:Is it fair that I can take, say, my Xbox 360 version of Dragon Age II down to Gamestop and sell it for a couple bucks when I'm done with it, but I can't do the same thing if I'd bought the same exact game via digital distribution?


Nope, not fair at all.

I've been having this discussion elsewhere about music media and ebooks today, but you've identified the crux of the issue: it is nonsensical to be allowed resale of a game stored on a physical medium but not a digital one (please excuse the crude distinction).

The principle being upheld by this ruling is exhaustion of rights, which to my knowledge is broadly equivalent to the doctrine of first sale in the US. The EU are generally pretty big on upholding that principle and it's good to see it being applied here despite the potential headache around tangible/intangible products.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Fivelives wrote:It ought to be interesting to see, either way. There's nothing in the ruling that would block it, and it could be argued that the game is part and parcel with the account. After all, you can download the game for free just fine, sure - but you can't play it without the account.
That ruling simply doesn't apply to accounts. Your account is not your property its blizzards. You are essentially subscribing to a service just like you do to cable TV.

Selling your account, that is selling your access to the game, is perfectly legal today and will continue to be. But if blizzard catches you can they can ban the account. Frankly because they own the account they can it ban at any time for any reason. It's not really any different than other subscription based services.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby rodos » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:45 pm

Pyrea wrote:From what I understand, this concerns the key that you use to add a game to your battle.net account (in the case of blizzard). This law would give you the right to be able to request that a license be removed from your account, and sell that to another person. Presumably this would then come with the characters created on that WoW license.

Why would you presume that? If I sell you my copy of Photoshop it doesn't come with access to every file I created using it. If I sold you my copy of Microsoft Outlook you wouldn't expect access to my email accounts. Your characters are not part of the WoW software, they're data generated by the software (in conjunction with the server software, which you never had a license to).

So, what this law would require is that I can sell you my WoW key, I lose access to all my toons, and you can open a new, blank account using that key.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Shoju » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:30 am

I've never understood the idea of selling accounts. I may not ever come back to WoW.

BUT

That doesn't mean I want someone else traipsing around the game on any of my characters either. Because even though it is all "technically" still Blizzard's stuff/property, that's really how I look at those collections of pixels. They are mine. And I don't want someone else using them.
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:03 pm

Shoju wrote:I've never understood the idea of selling accounts. I may not ever come back to WoW.

BUT

That doesn't mean I want someone else traipsing around the game on any of my characters either. Because even though it is all "technically" still Blizzard's stuff/property, that's really how I look at those collections of pixels. They are mine. And I don't want someone else using them.


I felt that way about my old DragonRealms account. I still have the old serial numbers of the toons for possible restoration. However, I haven't logged into the game since I quit playing - not even a trial account - and I could have sold the characters for some decent cash since I had some very rare and even unique items.

I understand where you're coming from, but if you are truly never going to go back, it doesn't really matter if your toons continue to live on past your departure. If you never look back, you'll never see what became of them.

In the mean time, you can recoup some value for the vast quantity of time you put in. Maybe even as much as 1c per hour! It's like getting paid to play...
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Re: Selling accounts may soon be legal - already is in the E

Postby Shoju » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:40 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Shoju wrote:I've never understood the idea of selling accounts. I may not ever come back to WoW.

BUT

That doesn't mean I want someone else traipsing around the game on any of my characters either. Because even though it is all "technically" still Blizzard's stuff/property, that's really how I look at those collections of pixels. They are mine. And I don't want someone else using them.


I felt that way about my old DragonRealms account. I still have the old serial numbers of the toons for possible restoration. However, I haven't logged into the game since I quit playing - not even a trial account - and I could have sold the characters for some decent cash since I had some very rare and even unique items.

I understand where you're coming from, but if you are truly never going to go back, it doesn't really matter if your toons continue to live on past your departure. If you never look back, you'll never see what became of them.

In the mean time, you can recoup some value for the vast quantity of time you put in. Maybe even as much as 1c per hour! It's like getting paid to play...



I'm not terribly desperate for money, and as a somewhat not so famous as theck, but with a weird creepy cult following of 10 people all to myself, type internet person, I would rather the character just disappear in the manner I choose.
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