Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Level"

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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby GMPoison » Wed May 09, 2012 12:25 pm

halabar wrote:
GMPoison wrote:Getting back on topic...

I am glad they're removing Have Group Will Travel, though they're not doing it because thats what people want, they're doing it because of the re introduction of World Bosses.

Both changes I'm glad to see they're making!!!


I don't think it's just that. It's for rare spawns and a lot of other stuff that give guilds at that level an advantage over other players.

They should leave HGWT, but just for raids.


The reason they're removing it is due to the re initiation of world bosses. They don't want one person sneaking to the boss, and then summoning everyone else.

Thought it would give guilds advantages over other things, like you stated, as well.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby halabar » Wed May 09, 2012 12:29 pm

GMPoison wrote:
halabar wrote:
GMPoison wrote:Getting back on topic...

I am glad they're removing Have Group Will Travel, though they're not doing it because thats what people want, they're doing it because of the re introduction of World Bosses.

Both changes I'm glad to see they're making!!!


I don't think it's just that. It's for rare spawns and a lot of other stuff that give guilds at that level an advantage over other players.

They should leave HGWT, but just for raids.


The reason they're removing it is due to the re initiation of world bosses. They don't want one person sneaking to the boss, and then summoning everyone else.

Thought it would give guilds advantages over other things, like you stated, as well.


But they could easily leave it for raids. Works well to leave one toon parked at the raid, and summon everyone when the group is full.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby Zobel » Wed May 09, 2012 12:31 pm

halabar wrote:But they could easily leave it for raids. Works well to leave one toon parked at the raid, and summon everyone when the group is full.

They could accomplish that by having summoning stones require only one person to initiate the summon.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby halabar » Wed May 09, 2012 12:32 pm

Zobel wrote:
halabar wrote:But they could easily leave it for raids. Works well to leave one toon parked at the raid, and summon everyone when the group is full.

They could accomplish that by having summoning stones require only one person to initiate the summon.


That would work...
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby lakhesis » Wed May 09, 2012 3:39 pm

halabar wrote:But they could easily leave it for raids. Works well to leave one toon parked at the raid, and summon everyone when the group is full.


Just make summoning stones require one click & summon everyone in party. Problem solved.

I'm not a fan of widespread use of HGWT personally. I can respect & approve of its use for instanced content, but if your friends aren't good enough friends to actually go & help you with a quest without a summon then that's a crying shame and you need better friends imo.

Bliz has created too much skippable content via flying + portals + HGWT.

Now if the content sucks so hard that it's just a horrendous burden to go through it to get to where you want to go, that's a fundamental problem with content design. But I don't think creating travel options that let people cherry-pick absolutely everything they see is a good design for a game - it provides no avenue to take people outside their comfort zone & into new experiences. I think it fosters a lack of growth & a sense of entitlement.

PS. I should read to the end of a thread before replying, but as an aside I'd be very surprised if Bliz didn't change summoning stones like Zobel & I mentioned. It's just too obvious a fix for controlling what I take to be their basic issue of the "summon to anywhere" nature of HGWT.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby rodos » Wed May 09, 2012 7:58 pm

lakhesis wrote:I'd be very surprised if Bliz didn't change summoning stones like Zobel & I mentioned. It's just too obvious a fix for controlling what I take to be their basic issue of the "summon to anywhere" nature of HGWT.

It would be silly not to. LFR, LFG, arena teams, and random and rated BG premades can all port straight in to the content, but guild raid groups have to send two people out and summon one-by-one? It's crazy.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby Hokahey » Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 am

Personally, I won't miss HGWT. It was convenient, but I really felt WoW drifted too far toward convenience in Cataclysm. Too many instant teleports and summons, making it feel far less immersive for me.

Summoning Stones being a single person able to summon the whole group is a fair solution, in my opinion, the main emphasis being it summons the entire group, not that it be a single person doing it. I can certainly see the perspective of those opposed to losing HGWT, though.

I guess I see the process of doing things in the game as part of the fun, whether it be travelling through the world or collecting materials, not only killing bosses with friends. Before anyone pushes what I'm saying to its irrational extreme, there is a breakpoint there. I don't want to grind mats 3 hours a day just to be able to function, but I also don't want the depth of gameplay to be login-> mash buttons-> collect phat loot, at least not all the time. There has to be a happy medium there.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby theckhd » Thu May 10, 2012 5:04 am

halabar wrote:
Zobel wrote:
halabar wrote:But they could easily leave it for raids. Works well to leave one toon parked at the raid, and summon everyone when the group is full.

They could accomplish that by having summoning stones require only one person to initiate the summon.


That would work...

Still not ideal on a massively imbalanced PVP server when you're in the minority. HGWT's major allure was the fact that you could zone in and summon everyone without interference and get going. Also extremely useful for the Maintankadin cross-realm raids, since we can't use summoning stones as they currently stand. I'm not sure how/if the one-to-summon idea would work with that - I could see hilarity ensuing when a PvE player summons a PvP player to the location, and the PvP player gets dropped into a group of the other faction.

Better idea: Put the summoning stones inside the instance, and make them one-to-summon.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby GMPoison » Thu May 10, 2012 6:36 am

theckhd wrote: I could see hilarity ensuing when a PvE player summons a PvP player to the location, and the PvP player gets dropped into a group of the other faction.


Doesn't that happen now, just with Have Group Will Travel rather than a summoning stone?
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby Worldie » Thu May 10, 2012 6:44 am

You can't summon x-realm outside a istance.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby GMPoison » Thu May 10, 2012 6:50 am

Worldie wrote:You can't summon x-realm outside a istance.


So it's not a problem for cross realm raids, such as Maintankadins.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby theckhd » Thu May 10, 2012 7:22 am

GMPoison wrote:
Worldie wrote:You can't summon x-realm outside a istance.


So it's not a problem for cross realm raids, such as Maintankadins.

It's not a problem because we can't do it. :P We just zone into the instance before using HGWT.

That's why removing HGWT is sort of an issue. One-click summoning stones outside the instance are unlikely to work for x-realm raiding. One-click summoning stones inside the instance would work perfectly. At which point, you may as well have the summoning stone just cast HGWT, which fixes a lot of the problems (not tied to guilds, only useful in specific raid instances or dungeons, etc).
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby benebarba » Thu May 10, 2012 7:40 am

theckhd wrote:
GMPoison wrote:
Worldie wrote:You can't summon x-realm outside a istance.


So it's not a problem for cross realm raids, such as Maintankadins.

It's not a problem because we can't do it. :P We just zone into the instance before using HGWT.

That's why removing HGWT is sort of an issue. One-click summoning stones outside the instance are unlikely to work for x-realm raiding. One-click summoning stones inside the instance would work perfectly. At which point, you may as well have the summoning stone just cast HGWT, which fixes a lot of the problems (not tied to guilds, only useful in specific raid instances or dungeons, etc).


This is so great an idea... I wonder if it'll ever happen :P

In a way, it would actually help to get folks out to old instances I think, though really it's probably the raids that care about it most since current-content 5-man groups will go through LFD because they want the reward (VP/JP/whathave you).

As a guild perk, it kind of made sense at first (big carrot)... but it, and mass rez to a lesser extent, seems to just have higlighted some really annoying aspects of instance running that still haven't died off: getting to the raid, and getting back from a wipe. Mass rez to a lesser extent because ghost runs at least can be defended as a punishment/deterent in the same way as a repair bill (though admittedly it seems like that's gotten a lot less punishing because of guild perks too...)
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby Skye1013 » Thu May 10, 2012 7:52 am

I think I'd rather them remove Mass Res over HGWT. At least as far as pugs are concerned (though I've been in guilds before with similar people.) People that can't be arsed to release, walk the 5 ft from the gy to the instance portal, then take the teleport at the entrance to damn near the exact location that we died at, need to quit being so damn lazy.
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Re: Ghostcrawler: "Bringing Achievements to the Account Leve

Postby benebarba » Thu May 10, 2012 8:06 am

Skye1013 wrote:I think I'd rather them remove Mass Res over HGWT. At least as far as pugs are concerned (though I've been in guilds before with similar people.) People that can't be arsed to release, walk the 5 ft from the gy to the instance portal, then take the teleport at the entrance to damn near the exact location that we died at, need to quit being so damn lazy.


Maybe it's me - but I think that's really obvious only because all of the current instances are in the same place (COT), use the same grave, can be tough to navigate (seriously- who *hasn't* gotten turned around in there before?) and they have portals to pretty much everywhere in DS. Firelands had a bit of a flight, and the portal would only help for the last 2 bosses. Stonecore, as another example - grave wasn't far away, but it was annoying as hell because of flying up to the instance portal. I seem to recall a similar thing for BWD. Note that I remember these because unless I'm told not to, I release and run :P

I think had they not made instance portals that require a flying mount to get to, they could have left a bit more of the 'run of shame' in the ghost run. That or not co-locate the raid GY with one in the questing zone (as in the Mt Hyjal/Firelands grave), slap em next to the instance portals, and just be satisfied with the act of releasing and having to re-enter the instance as a sufficient signal that you done screwed up.


Because at the end of the day, if it gets my raid back to attempts faster, you better believe I'm waiting for a rez. World exploration is for when I'm questing, not the 10th time I've done the flight/run from a GY.
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