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Pandaclysm and the other classes

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Skye1013 » Wed May 02, 2012 6:37 pm

Devouring Plague *New* - Consumes all of the caster's Shadow Orbs to deal 2,099 Shadow damage per orb consumed and afflict the target with a disease that causes (1,049 + 50.0% of SP) Shadow damage every 1 for 2 sec per orb consumed. 15% of damage caused by the Devouring Plague heals the caster. 40 Yards Range. Instant. Costs 1 Shadow Orb.

So, if I'm reading that correctly, with 3 orbs, it lasts for 6 seconds?

Mastery: Shadow Orb Power replaced with Mastery: Shadowy Recall - Gives your periodic shadow damage spells a x% chance to deal damage twice, each time they deal damage.

Hm... guess I'll get to kind of see what the Legendary staff is like.

Shadowy Apparitions *New* - When you deal periodic damage with your Shadow Word: Pain, you have a 12% chance to summon a shadow version of yourself which will slowly move towards a target which is afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain. Once reaching the target, it will instantly deal 1,025 shadow damage. You can have up to 15 Shadowy Apparitions active at a time.

If this only procs from SW:P, I'm not sure how we'd get up to 15 outside of multi-dotting on aoe groups. Though I do like the glyph I saw the other day that allows ShAps to fly. Will help with dps during "flight phases" or similar.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Worldie » Wed May 02, 2012 9:29 pm

I already like the new model more, but I think a RNG mastery is definitively bad. Though, the only similar mastery (ele shaman one) is their best stat, so I guess we'll see how this one turns out.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Levantine » Fri May 04, 2012 1:06 am

You're thinking like a tank. As a dps rng is nowhere near the issue it is as a tank. Especially when the RNG is completely passive. Like, it's the same thing as Elemental Overload and isn't going to impact your gameplay in any way other than further emphasising the importance of DoT uptime.

It's nothing like being reliant on something RNG like crit for Fire Mages, it's simply extra damage on a proc.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby lythac » Fri May 04, 2012 1:56 am

Levantine wrote:You're thinking like a tank. As a dps rng is nowhere near the issue it is as a tank. Especially when the RNG is completely passive. Like, it's the same thing as Elemental Overload and isn't going to impact your gameplay in any way other than further emphasising the importance of DoT uptime.

It's nothing like being reliant on something RNG like crit for Fire Mages, it's simply extra damage on a proc.


I suppose DPS RNG would have a greater impact to PvP than PvE, So it shouldn't effect PvE much as it will be scaled to acceptable levels for PvP.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Worldie » Fri May 04, 2012 3:00 am

Well lev, Remember that the original Sp mastery and ret mastery were Rng and terrible. However I think you are right, a "RNG" proc that doesnt affect gameplay shouldnt be too bad maybe
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Nooska » Fri May 04, 2012 3:52 am

Unless its simply underpowered - I'll refer to Marksmanship Mastery - a chance on ranged hits to proc an additional ranged shot. For the entire expansion Mastery has been ranked dead last for MM (and even though I've contended that Mastery could be worth as much or more than haste, I haven't had any of the needed tools or knowhow to actually go through it - the sims favor haste too much due to the way the work).
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Levantine » Fri May 04, 2012 6:12 am

It can go either way depending on the tuning. Elemental Overload has been hitting it out with Haste as Elemental's best stat all expansion.

The original Hand of Light wasn't passive; it was a proc you had to react to. Completely different ball game to a passive free damage proc.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby halabar » Fri May 04, 2012 7:48 am

Levantine wrote:You're thinking like a tank. As a dps rng is nowhere near the issue it is as a tank. Especially when the RNG is completely passive. Like, it's the same thing as Elemental Overload and isn't going to impact your gameplay in any way other than further emphasising the importance of DoT uptime.

It's nothing like being reliant on something RNG like crit for Fire Mages, it's simply extra damage on a proc.


Well, like you said, Fire Mages relying on crit procs for dps, resulting in wild dps swings isn't great, but RNG procs that either eat or overload resources aren't great either. (No I really didn't need all those haste procs at once.. I can't hit the buttons any faster, and it's below the GCD anyway...)

If Blizz stayed away from RNG-haste, all would be good...
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Fortius » Sat May 05, 2012 4:06 pm

Levantine wrote:It can go either way depending on the tuning. Elemental Overload has been hitting it out with Haste as Elemental's best stat all expansion.

The original Hand of Light wasn't passive; it was a proc you had to react to. Completely different ball game to a passive free damage proc.

It depends if the bonus dot procs are able to trigger Surge of Darkness and Mind surge - that would make it much more similar to the original ret mastery in a way (ie. random procs letting you use stronger abilities more often). Though archangel will probably be more popular than SoD anyway because it can be timed with heroism, etc.

I think I read something at shadowpriest.com saying the bonus dot procs can also proc a bonus tick, which could make things interesting (but may not be intended). I didn't pay enough attention to my shammy in Cata, how does their version work with stuff like this?
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Levantine » Sun May 06, 2012 12:41 am

Overload procs can trigger Rolling Thunder increasing the frequency of Fulmination. I tend to think that procs like this impact casters less than melee though due to the simple fact that we're hard casting. On that note, the interaction between HoL, Crusader Strike and Holy Power all clashing was what greatly devalued HoL iirc. Not that it was innately a bad idea, just not suited to Paladins.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Worldie » Sun May 06, 2012 12:42 am

I suppose thats not intended, shaman mastery cant proc off itself. Windfury used to, but it got disabled.

Most likely just an implementation bug
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Skye1013 » Sun May 06, 2012 5:23 pm

Actually played around with my priest a little on a target dummy. I'm enjoying the Surge of Light/Darkness talent that allows SW:P to occasionally finish my MB cd and make it instant. I'm not sure what else gives Shadow Orbs, but it seemed like occasionally I was getting extras outside of casting MB (now that I think about it, might have been the t13 set bonus.)

I don't like that VE is a cd now, but I guess that'll be a differentiator for "good" spriests using it to help on aoe/high damage phases. Currently it's borked anyway, as it only heals for 1 hp.

DP is... interesting? No more spamming it while running to keep some form of dps. I'm not sure the heal is working atm either (might have been because I was on a target dummy, but I was slowly killing myself with SW:D.)

On that note, SW:D is going to be another of our procs to watch for. I think it's a talent that makes it so occasionally using SW:D will count as though the target is <20%. I suppose this could go either way on the good/bad scale, as it's just another potentially "required" ability to mess with.

All in all, not sure what sort of a priority queue we'll have, but for sure we'll want to keep SW:P and VT rolling (SW:P can be glyphed or talented, not sure which, to be refreshed with MF.) From what I can tell at this stage, it looks like:

1. SW:P
2. VT
3. 3 orb DP
4. proc'd SW:D / <20% SW:D
5. MB
6. MF

Also, currently it doesn't appear that Shadow Orbs have a timer (like HoPo) so will stay built up until you use them.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby halabar » Mon May 07, 2012 7:37 am

Nooska wrote:Unless its simply underpowered - I'll refer to Marksmanship Mastery - a chance on ranged hits to proc an additional ranged shot. For the entire expansion Mastery has been ranked dead last for MM (and even though I've contended that Mastery could be worth as much or more than haste, I haven't had any of the needed tools or knowhow to actually go through it - the sims favor haste too much due to the way the work).


And that haste becomes more and more problematic, since there are additional bursts of haste during a fight, resulting in 3-4 different rotations.. unngghh... Better for the mastery to be stronger. Haste is on the bottom for BM as well.

But typical Blizz, create this new mastery thing, and make it the weakest of the secondary stats on the majority of class specs.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Worldie » Mon May 07, 2012 8:39 am

Skye1013 wrote:DP is... interesting? No more spamming it while running to keep some form of dps. I'm not sure the heal is working atm either (might have been because I was on a target dummy, but I was slowly killing myself with SW:D.)

SW:P does istant damage now when applied, so we'll likely spam that one while moving.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Levantine » Mon May 07, 2012 2:19 pm

How would divine insight stack up against Power infusion over a fight I wonder? It's probably a moot question though now that I'm thinking about it while I write it down. PI would be better for coordinated burst, even if DI is a better quality of life talent. I suppose that's what they're going for with the new talent system? If a fight doesn't have a coordinated burn phase to exaggerate the use of infusion I can see myself running with insight as a general rule and only swapping for the fights where you'd want the on demand power instead of the saved globalsq over the course of the fight.

If duplicate ticks can trigger the mind blast reset not needing to manually refresh pain would probably have an even better rate of return, maybe?
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