Game of Thrones

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:45 pm

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I can't stop laughing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fenrìr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:53 pm

Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh. Mostly because I don't give 2 cents about the political nature of my country.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Torquemada » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:13 pm

Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh. Mostly because I don't give 2 cents about the political nature of my country.


The fact that so many people are of the same sentiment is probably why we have such crappy leaders in the first place. That and the fact that by electing tripe and entrails to public office we give fodder to Lewis Black and Jon Stewart, and owe it to ourselves to give them fuel to keep us laughing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Hokahey » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:37 am

alayire wrote: I don't want to turn this into something else that it's not but .. your example of Hitler and German military is not exactly on the spot. the SS certainly knew about it, the Army itself was for the most part in the dark, because the SS was not part of the Army. Maybe they heard rumors about the genocides, maybe they had some knowledge about it, yes, but it's not like they witnessed it first hand and did nothing about it. The German Army officers for the most part were noblemen and quite civil. Hitler only started on berating and flailing and showing his true colors to the Army when they started losing in the East front. And it's not like they didn't try to save the country, they did and failed to kill Hitler. that failed attempt only fueled his madness. And it's not like Hitler was like that from the begging(he saved them from a depression and pulled the country back from brink of disaster way before the war). there is much more to say about it, but I don't want to turn this into something not about Game of Thrones.


That's fair enough.

alayire wrote:anyway .. KysenMurrin said it better, only few people knew about them actually turning mad. it's hard to justify such actions to the public, when they do not see the same man you know. It's true however that in the movie Joffrey only seems to be this spoiled brat and acting mad, there is no real scene in which he acts as a real king for his people, maybe that's why we get this impression that he's mad( just to note, I had the same impression, haven't read the books ).


All I'm saying is it still works, according to what we know of human behavior. Its been demonstrated time and again that its a lot more difficult to stand up to injustice than people believe. As long as he is perceived to have the unwavering support of the all (or at least the vast majority) of the strong men with swords that are standing around in the immediate vicinity, he can get away with just about anything, regardless of his audience.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby econ21 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:23 am

Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh.


But you've got to admit "Always going on about climate change" is a good one.

Who's the politician counterposed with Tyrion?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:33 am

econ21 wrote:
Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh.


But you've got to admit "Always going on about climate change" is a good one.

Who's the politician counterposed with Tyrion?


Stephen colbert. Comedian and satirist. He passes his hosts his show as a faux conservative pundit... Sometimes convincingly enough to fool republican politicians... Heck, he got invited to host the press dinner party hosted by the white house and spent the whole night grilling bush, cheney and others.

And yeah, he would prolly do a better job than most politicians.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 am

Klaudandus wrote:And yeah, he would prolly do a better job than most politicians.


Most of the problem with politicians is that they're politicians. I would attribute the majority of systemic problems to the fact that there's such a thing as a "career politician."

But getting back on topic.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fetzie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:52 am

I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 am

Pyrea wrote:I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?


That is ser jorah mormont, exiled lord of the bear islands of the north, he had befriended illyrio (the dude that set up vyseris and daeherys) with the dothrakhi so he decided to hang out as a sort of liaison as he had more knowledge of he dothraki culture and the other free cities than vyseris and daenerys.

He is also the son of lord mormont, lord commander of the nightwatch.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:12 am

If I remember right, he's in a self imposed exile to avoid having his head on a pike by Lord Stark for selling slaves.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Pyrea wrote:I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?


Did you not watch season one? He explains his whole story.

*possible spoilers*


He fell in love with a noblewoman and brought her back to his bleak northern estate, and she hated it in the North and demanded increasingly expensive distractions and luxuries. He fell into debt trying to please his wife until finally in desperation, he sold some of his vassals into slavery to eastern traders. This was in violation of King Robert's laws, as well as bringing great shame on the North as a whole, and Lord Eddard Stark found out about it and determined to behead Jora for his crime. Jora was forced to flee into exile.

He originally stuck with Dany and her brother because he was working as a spy for Varys the Spider, hoping for a royal pardon allowing him to return to his home. However he becomes loyal to Dany, and prevents the assassination attempt against her in Season One.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fetzie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:12 pm

I must have forgotten, thanks for the refresh :D
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:46 pm

It was not his vassals - it was some criminals that he sold instead of sending to the Night's Watch.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Nakama » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:22 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:It was not his vassals - it was some criminals that he sold instead of sending to the Night's Watch.


I've never read the books, but in the series they were poachers on his land that he sold into slavery.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:36 am

Poachers would be criminals. ;)
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fetzie » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:30 am

Poachers are thieves that take livestock from your land.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Shamora » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:04 am

Poaching has to do specifically with wild animals and plants. In GoT and other similar times likely from hunting on lands that you do not own nor have permission to hunt on.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:52 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Poachers would be criminals. ;)


Who were most likely vassals of his because who gets in a boat to sail out to Bear Island just to poach in THAT forest when there is perfectly good forest on the mainland, unless they lived there? ;)
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby alayire » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:08 am

Hokahey wrote:
alayire wrote:anyway .. KysenMurrin said it better, only few people knew about them actually turning mad. it's hard to justify such actions to the public, when they do not see the same man you know. It's true however that in the movie Joffrey only seems to be this spoiled brat and acting mad, there is no real scene in which he acts as a real king for his people, maybe that's why we get this impression that he's mad( just to note, I had the same impression, haven't read the books ).


All I'm saying is it still works, according to what we know of human behavior. Its been demonstrated time and again that its a lot more difficult to stand up to injustice than people believe. As long as he is perceived to have the unwavering support of the all (or at least the vast majority) of the strong men with swords that are standing around in the immediate vicinity, he can get away with just about anything, regardless of his audience.

this is an interesting subject.
the story is fictive(with magic and all) however the social aspect resembles/is based upon medieval culture. as in kings by blood or by right(conquerors), knights and lords of the lands.
Notice they do talk allot about "the law". if we were to look at our culture in the medieval times, the Kings word was the law. No matter how harsh, how cruel or how insane it was. if the king wasn't there, the Lord of the lands word was the law and so on and so forth down the ladder. Quite in fact if we were to look into our past, we would see that allot of our Kings were very harsh and ruled with an "iron fist" even those that were considered just and kind.
In our times, the law is quite .. well detailed and vast. It sets to protect the human rights and sees all people as equal. that is most certainly not the case with medieval times. Remember the incident where Arya defended that boy in front of Jofery when they were traveling from Winterfell to Kings Landing in season 1? She was a lady, but he was the prince, she broke the law by laying her hand on him. They had a social ladder, overstepping your rank in almost all cases meant losing your head(or the very least your status). She was spared from a very harsh punishment only because her dad and the king happened to be bestest friends.

their law is meant to protect their heritage and ranks, not the common folk. they(common folk) were at the mercy of their rulers. look in our medieval history, people that rebelled needed a leader that had a rightful claim to something(be it the throne, or just a land(king in the north for example)) otherwise their rebellion was doomed before it started.

I mean .. look at Eddard Stark. He was by the looks of it a just man and lord. Yet he beheaded a young man for abandoning his post in the Northen Watch, that's a bit cruel by today standards ain't it, it's not like he killed anyone(well the crime he was being beheaded for atleast)? But that was the law, that was what he was supposed to do because he was the King's man(don't remember the right word for it) and it was his duty. Watch the start of the first episode, he certainly doesn't look thrilled to do it(watch the part where he's with his wife and he gets the news) and he even makes his youngest son watch it.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Mannstein » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:26 am

alayire wrote: (..)this is an interesting subject.
Notice they do talk allot about "the law".
(...)


I once read a translation on a law book from the XV century (i think XV)...
It was very well organised, you had the "crime", then two punishment: 1st for the lowborn/low nobility, another for the high Nobility.
I remember thinking... hey at least they already had accountability for the High Nobility.

P.S. IIRC the punishment for sleeping with a married woman went from 10years hard labor for the peasant to 1week money compensations for the High born.
P.P.S. Of course this law camed from the King and it didn't aplied to him.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Tue May 01, 2012 4:53 pm

I mean .. look at Eddard Stark. He was by the looks of it a just man and lord. Yet he beheaded a young man for abandoning his post in the Northen Watch, that's a bit cruel by today standards ain't it, it's not like he killed anyone(well the crime he was being beheaded for atleast)? But that was the law, that was what he was supposed to do because he was the King's man(don't remember the right word for it) and it was his duty. Watch the start of the first episode, he certainly doesn't look thrilled to do it(watch the part where he's with his wife and he gets the news) and he even makes his youngest son watch it


Technically, in present day deserting during a time or war or abandoning your post if you are a guard in a combat zone are both punishable by death under current military law.
And rightfully so.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby tinalt » Tue May 01, 2012 5:18 pm

Brekkie wrote:
I mean .. look at Eddard Stark. He was by the looks of it a just man and lord. Yet he beheaded a young man for abandoning his post in the Northen Watch, that's a bit cruel by today standards ain't it, it's not like he killed anyone(well the crime he was being beheaded for atleast)? But that was the law, that was what he was supposed to do because he was the King's man(don't remember the right word for it) and it was his duty. Watch the start of the first episode, he certainly doesn't look thrilled to do it(watch the part where he's with his wife and he gets the news) and he even makes his youngest son watch it


Technically, in present day deserting during a time or war or abandoning your post if you are a guard in a combat zone are both punishable by death under current military law.
And rightfully so.

True that it's punishable by death, but then again it seems like 1/3 of the UCMJ has "punishable by death during wartime" as one of the options. It's rare for it to make it that far in todays society.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Wed May 02, 2012 1:42 am

Just saying that, at least in 'MERICA, sentencing someone to death from crimes both in civilian law and military law is hardly some forgotten memory from a primitive, brutish past.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby alayire » Thu May 03, 2012 4:44 am

Brekkie wrote:Just saying that, at least in 'MERICA, sentencing someone to death from crimes both in civilian law and military law is hardly some forgotten memory from a primitive, brutish past.
Ok, just because this punishment still exists in most countries and it's not something of the past, doesn't make it less cruel(by today standards). There are more then enough people that would say/argue this is barbaric and unjustified.
Not only that there is a clear difference between "punishable by death" and "is punished by death". the former states that it can lead to death but rarely does happen, where the latter leaves no room for interpretation, the sentence is death. Also, even if people still get death sentence these days, how many of them are beheaded? Not to mention he could have just as easily ordered someone to do it, yet he did it himself.
Even so, my example was not meant to point out what a cruel punishment he delivered, but the fact that he did what he had to do, no matter how cruel or barbaric it seems to us because those were the times, those were the laws. Maybe back then people didn't even think it was barbaric, maybe all they felt was the man wasted his life for nothing by doing this. It was meant to show that they had no mercy for whom the law dictated should die. And the king could sentence someone to die for no apparent good reason, it was his right.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Thu May 03, 2012 9:09 am

alayire wrote:
Brekkie wrote:Just saying that, at least in 'MERICA, sentencing someone to death from crimes both in civilian law and military law is hardly some forgotten memory from a primitive, brutish past.
Ok, just because this punishment still exists in most countries and it's not something of the past, doesn't make it less cruel(by today standards). There are more then enough people that would say/argue this is barbaric and unjustified.
Not only that there is a clear difference between "punishable by death" and "is punished by death". the former states that it can lead to death but rarely does happen, where the latter leaves no room for interpretation, the sentence is death. Also, even if people still get death sentence these days, how many of them are beheaded? Not to mention he could have just as easily ordered someone to do it, yet he did it himself.
Even so, my example was not meant to point out what a cruel punishment he delivered, but the fact that he did what he had to do, no matter how cruel or barbaric it seems to us because those were the times, those were the laws. Maybe back then people didn't even think it was barbaric, maybe all they felt was the man wasted his life for nothing by doing this. It was meant to show that they had no mercy for whom the law dictated should die. And the king could sentence someone to die for no apparent good reason, it was his right.


You think the death penalty is "cruel by today's standards" and "barbaric". There are many who would agree with you, but also many who would disagree.
But let's not derail the GoT thread with this topic. If you want to discuss it, I'd be happy to, just make a new thread.
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