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Why am I still set as offtank in gruuls lair?

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Why am I still set as offtank in gruuls lair?

Postby aybarra » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:28 am

Im not sure but I feel like the ones with the best gear should go for maintank spot. Thats actually not the case for me (atleast I feel so).

I consider myself the best geared tank we have in our guild.
Im the only who have tanked when we cleared kara, Im the only one who have tanked Prince succesfully in the guild (about 10+times now, its on farm)
We have just started Gruuls lair. Only downed HKM so far. Last time I was set as offtank and do the annoying warlock. We need an warr for HKM (guess we have all heard it sometimes).
Priest goes down, warlock goes down, maintank goes down, thank god he is tauntable so he only get one healer before I got him to me and we down him.
Why will I still be an offtank next time we go? Because it doesent matter what I do or how much effort I put in I still think most people will go for an warr instead of me. Should I tell the guild (or shout) stop beeing so narrowminded and let me do what I do best.

Diffrences in stats between me and the maintank. All is unbuffed.

Hitpoints: Me-14917hp warr-13454hp
Def: Me-491 warr-509
dodge: Me-23,36 warr-19.16
parry: Me-15.64 warr-12.59
block: uncrushable so who gives a &%/¤
armour: me-17235 warr-14859
Dont have the BV value for our warr unfortunatly.
Ahhh, he should have more def than that but I see now he changed the adamantite figurine for the mount trinket, but still he wont be able to get to my avoidance. Does hes -4% damage taken overweight my extra armour and rest of mitigation/avoidance or are people still dpendable on the dam OH SHIT buttons that I dont have? (yes 1 hour cooldown).


My armoury link. http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... &n=Aybarra
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Postby Staurol » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:47 am

I think it's just as simple as who can do what best. When we run Gruul, I'm usually tanking Old the Summoner as well. A pally tank is good on the warlock because our consecration can get initial aggro on the Felpuppies almost immediately. If that doesn't for some reason, we can hit the pups with an excorcism to make sure they stay on us and don't run towards the heal squad.

Yes, tanking Olm sucks. Last night he feared me right at the mage right off the bat :^( Just keep doing what you're doing. Your guild needs atleast one good tank from every tanking class to do well, I wouldn't really let it bug you so far, especially if you guys just started Gruuls.
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Postby Rehlachs- » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:22 am

to be honest, in your guilds case i might prefer the warrior, too. last stand/shield wall is too important until your healers get used to all this silence stuff with a rather big number of growths.
furthermore your melees will prefer your tps, since their damage output is limited to the tps of the second tank.

don't get me wrong, but in my personal opinion gruul is one of the bosses where i rather like offtanking due to hurtful strike.


edit: holy lord, i'm afraid i found your warrior's armory (aralion?). i didn't look at the %s you posted and know i'm quite shocked ^^
at first he should improve his spec.. thats awful :o
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Postby Antharas » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:24 am

i have MTed HK and Gruul w/ 15.3k armor, 497 def, 12.8k hp (all unbuffed. no reason why u shouldnt be able too or allowed too
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Postby aybarra » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:49 am

Im not talking about Gruul.
Ive said myself to the guild that I want to OT on him because of the silence.
Im talking HKM, we have been in there 3 times now, downed him 2 1:st time with warr, second time with me since the warr died. One of the times they had an DPS log in with he´s warr alt with mostly blues and some kara epics just because "We have to have an warr on HKM".
Fully raidbuffed im at almost 2k hp higher and 2 k armour not considering my avoidance is 3-4% higher depending on what flasks I use.
I have no problem being an OT if its because 1. Same level of gear 2. Palas will be much harder to do the boss or 3. I lack skills for the encounter.
So far its only been option2 and thats on Maiden and gruul because of the silences. We down maiden with me tanking too but i prefer to have an warr or druid do her since the mages in our guild are pretty trigger happy and I cant go full out.
We all know we are harder to gear up and Ive put so much more time than the rest of our tanks just to get my gear up and its anoying to always be the second choice. Our guild is no hardcore guild and most of us have played together since preTBC we got to ZG and AQ20 and hooked up with another guild to be able to do Ony. we have played thrue all TBC and only gotten to Gruuls now. So we are no Hardcore guild, if we were hardcore I could go with the fact that we use warrs instead of me but then again, if we were hardcore the others would also be better geared.
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Postby Rehlachs- » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:33 am

my bad ^^

you can tank hkm. since patch 2.3 and the given changes in the fear mechanics (mob doesn't change target blablabla) i would rather recommend a paladin tank on hkm himself:

- when hkm starts using his fear ability you won't lose aggro anymore
- after charge you can taunt him back (ww next to the casters is bad)
- due to the changes in fear olm no longer changes target after he deathcoiled someone.. to get him back on position you have to use 2 tanks using taunt. our taunt has a very long cooldown so we kind of suck at this one (without taunting your olm-tank will run out of his healers range, get into the mages aoe-range, and so on).
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Postby Palladia » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:36 pm

Rehlachs- wrote:to be honest, in your guilds case i might prefer the warrior, too. last stand/shield wall is too important until your healers get used to all this silence stuff with a rather big number of growths.


The stat difference is huge enough to render this false.
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Postby Rehlachs- » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:55 am

not false, just more global (damn, i don't know that word in english ^^ .. my first post based on theory and didn't reflect this special case, since i didn't have a look at these players' armory profiles)

i edited my post later on since i haven't seen this warrior's gear/spec.
but, f.e. if he gets 5% parry from his talents, his stats won't look that bad anymore.
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Postby aybarra » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:58 am

Even if he gets hes parry up im still ahead on him on my avoidance.
Don't take me wrong, Im not after taking the warriors job. He said that once and I explained that we are diffrent tanks and good on diffrent things. He accepted that argument.
He started kara before me and I was set as an offtank, I play more than him. He works evenings every second week and I work day every week so when my kids has gone to sleep I get around 3-4 hours at the evenings I can sit. The problem for me is when I started kara I was fine as offtank. Our warrs had better gear than me. I put a real effort in my game and reached same gear (not same but equal gear) and still was was set to offtank when there was an warr in because i had lesser hp.
Now Im ahead in gear, hp (tnx patch), avoidance and still gets to offtank when an warr is in the raid. And my guild know what I can do, Im the only of our tanks that solotanks most of kara when we dont get one more tank they go with only me. Im the only tank who has cleared kara, several times diffrent setups with people. We havent done it yet with either an warr or druid tank.
I just want to get a shot at stuff and don´t come as second choice all the time but now when Ive gotten my hp pool up (that was the issue they gave before) they go for the "oh shit buttons".
I dont know, might be me beeing egoistic too.
Well, going gruul tonight again, guess Ill see what happens.
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Postby Warrender » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:58 am

Wait, you mean you're fine with offtanking Gruul and your guild just won't let you tank HKM?

Yeah, they're retarded. HKM is easy sauce for any tankadin with decent gear and skill.
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Postby Antharas » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:08 pm

w/ your gear you should be fine to tank HKM and Gruul, if ur guild isnt letting you, tell them off. if you fail at tanking HKM or Gruul tho, its not a gear issue :-P

ur stats are alot better than mine and ive MTed HKM and Gruul for my guild w/o any issues (i go down at growth 12-13 on gruul, but my dpsers are usually faster than that)
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Postby aybarra » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:44 am

Continues here instead of making new post.

Got my first try ever as maintanking gruul. My favorite drood was offtanking.
We didnt get him down and I was pretty smasched down between growth 10-13 at our tries. and the druid had to take over.
I started 2k armour potting at 8 growth and keept it up all the time, was pretty lucky with silences too and the times I couldnt keep my HS up I had moroes trinket off cooldown too.

The problem for me was I dont think I got any heals, its hard for me to check my combat log since it gets so big and shows everything that happens (dots on gruul, people getting hurt and so on) but from what I could see one time when I went down i took 3 hits at growth 12, 2 dodges and only got one chain healing from one of the shamans.
Is it a way to strip down the combat logg to only show stuff that happens to me (healing and damage) or is there any good addons that keep track on this stuff. I dont wanna shout out to the healers "HEAL FFS" if they do and my combat log dont show it.

Going again tonight and hope we will do better.

BTW I guess our DPS sucks cause when the druid finally died we were at growth 16 with gruul still 20% left.
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:51 am

At around Growth 6, our Healers stop most of the healing on the rest of the raid and focus exclusively on the two tanks. At that point, DPS should really rely on Bandages, Healthstones, Pots, etc to deal with most of the splash damage, since if they're lucky they'll get a HoT or a quick FoL from a nearby healer.

If your DPS are taking more damage than that takes care of then they need to learn to spread out more.

You could be being unlucky, it's possible that 2-3 large heals landed at the same time and those healers all were in the middle of the 3 sec cast time for the next one when you died. Recount's a good mod for keeping a track of various damage stats, including what happened to you in the last few seconds before you died.
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Postby Diocaska » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:23 am

I couldnt keep my HS up I had moroes trinket off cooldown too.


You're going to need to sort out a warrior intervening silences. Because its one of the main reasons why a warrior is better for this fight than a paladin. (Also charges for after ground slam of doom).

BTW I guess our DPS sucks cause when the druid finally died we were at growth 16 with gruul still 20% left.


At this point. He should be dead. DPS need to pick up their game.
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Postby jere » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:27 am

aybarra wrote:
The problem for me was I dont think I got any heals, its hard for me to check my combat log since it gets so big and shows everything that happens (dots on gruul, people getting hurt and so on) but from what I could see one time when I went down i took 3 hits at growth 12, 2 dodges and only got one chain healing from one of the shamans.
Is it a way to strip down the combat logg to only show stuff that happens to me (healing and damage) or is there any good addons that keep track on this stuff. I dont wanna shout out to the healers "HEAL FFS" if they do and my combat log dont show it.


Addons like:

Grim Reaper -- Shows the last X heals/hits of the fight up to your death
Recount -- has a death report as well
Eavesdrop -- much more readable text on what happened in terms of healing/damage
SimpleCombatLog -- makes the combat log less cluttered and more readable.
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