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[Rogue] Optimising performance

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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Darielle » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:13 am

Rhiannon wrote:Thing is the difference between a ruptureless rotation and using rupture is extremely small for combat, to the extent that if you're going to be consistently reducing the dpe/dpcp of your ruptures by clipping them you should probably not be bothering with a rupture rotation in the first place.


This.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:39 am

So, what you're saying is, bleeds follow the same coding, but consistant uptime isn't required for max dps (unlike a priest/lock.)
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Darielle » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:41 am

If you have the right settings, and you can keep Bleeds up consistently, you will get a tiny amount more dps with good Bleed uptime.

But if you're cutting into your efficiency by clipping Bleeds, or you're losing out on the right settings (say for example, the Feral is off doing something on the other side of the room and you don't have Mangle), you shouldn't bother with Rupture because you're either getting nothing for bothering about Rupture, or losing out dps because of your inefficienc, so just Eviscerate all the things.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:35 pm

im honestly thinking about just switching to pure evis combat
according to EJ its only about 1% dps loss
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:15 am

I think I actually increased my DPS by dropping Rupture from my rotation as Combat.



As such, I'm looking for any tips on a Sub rotation. According to sims, it's about a 1200 dps increase over combat with my current gear.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby bldavis » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:24 am

it depends on the fight
if you are one a single target fight, 100% uptime and are able to backstab, yes it is a big increase
but i dont know of any fights like that in DS

as far as rupture, it depends on your raid comp and time on target
if you have an arms warrior or a feral druid (either spec) then rupture will add some dps
if you dont have the bleed dam+ debuff...stick with SnD+Evis
(it is a different spec as well, i dont remember exactly what changes but it is only like 2-3 points)
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:33 pm

Doesn't Hemo provide the same debuff as Blood Frenzy/Mangle? Or do pve sub rogues not take Hemo?
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:04 pm

Cogglamp wrote:Doesn't Hemo provide the same debuff as Blood Frenzy/Mangle? Or do pve sub rogues not take Hemo?


Sub rogues take hemo, and sub rogues keep rupture up. Not using rupture as sub is doing it wrong with the exception of a valiona/theralion add killing spec from t11, given that evis automatically refreshes it and you get a 16% damage buff for attacking a mob with a bleed on it. I think bldavis was talking about rupture usage as combat.

Sub's only particularly decent on Morchok, Hagara and Spine though.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:15 pm

Ah, I see. My bad.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby bldavis » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm

Rhiannon wrote:
Cogglamp wrote:Doesn't Hemo provide the same debuff as Blood Frenzy/Mangle? Or do pve sub rogues not take Hemo?


Sub rogues take hemo, and sub rogues keep rupture up. Not using rupture as sub is doing it wrong with the exception of a valiona/theralion add killing spec from t11, given that evis automatically refreshes it and you get a 16% damage buff for attacking a mob with a bleed on it. I think bldavis was talking about rupture usage as combat.

Sub's only particularly decent on Morchok, Hagara and Spine though.

yeah i was, sorry bout not making it clearer
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
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Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:14 am

bldavis wrote:it depends on the fight
if you are one a single target fight, 100% uptime and are able to backstab, yes it is a big increase
but i dont know of any fights like that in DS



What's the typical rotation (or priority) system though? I tried to wrap my mind around the EJ push this before that...but failed. Maybe I'm over thinking it.



Also, when it comes to SimC, is there a way to stop the program from simming Rupture as an ability to do during the boss fight?
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:22 am

In very basic terms, sub is (on single target you can stay on):

use combo points to: put rupture up, keep snd up, keep recup up, keep rupture up (with evis)

for combo point builders use ambush if you can (stealth or shadowdance), use hemo to keep glyph of hemo up, else use backstab. If you can't get behind then hemo, but you're losing a lot of dps to do so.

So outside of shadowdanced/pull you basically backstab for cp (with a hemo every 24 secondsish), and then depending on your gear you keep snd and recup up with evis in between. My rogue's got pretty crappy gear and generally goes snd -> evis -> recup -> evis -> snd -> evis -> recup -> evis etc, but with better gear you can squeeze in a second evis more frequently. Because you're dependent on being in a raid for a lot of your resource generation (10% melee haste and combo points from HaT) practicing on a dummy solo is very different from being in a raid, so you really need to either grab a friend or hit morchok a few times in lfr to get a good feel for it.

The thing with sub though is that it has a lot of subtleties (hurrrrrrrr) to optimise dps, for example I didn't touch shadowdance, which is a large part of your damage. The EJ thread does a good job to cover most of them and they will make sense once you've got a feel for the basic rhythm of the rotation. The macros there are also pretty nice for simplifying how many buttons you have to press - honestly, setting up your bars properly is the most difficult thing about starting to play sub. Also learning to be patient and wait for HaT to give you your last combo point takes a bit of doing if you're coming from spam-happy combat.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:31 am

So pooling energy is a lot more important for sub?
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:49 am

Yeah, you want to pool energy prior to shadowdance or vanishing so you can get as many attacks off during shadowdance/find weakness uptime. Outside of that there's no rush, and by pooling you'll find it easier not to waste HaT cp.
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Re: [Rogue] Optimising performance

Postby manapotion » Tue May 01, 2012 8:57 am

^^ this
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