A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:02 pm

Test #22: Scaling with haste/crit for EF's over-time effect

Build:
Actor: Lakhe, with bloodlust from Syllabary
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: None
Target: Level 60 dummy, from behind. Roof of warrior trainer, VoH, org.
Attack Sequence:
- CS - EF - Lust - let EF expire
- CS - EF - Lust expires - let EF expire
- CS - EF - let EF expire x3

Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tquy ... details/5/

Gear:
- AP 615
- SP 9,452 (food & flask had run out compared to earlier tests, but I had the shaman sp buff.. and mastery buff)
- Base Haste: 12.49% (1600 rating)
- Spell Crit: 11.89%
- Had (mostly) the premade holy gear on so there's a heal proc from the Eye of Blazing Power trinket

Notes:
- Looks like it can crit and snapshots your haste at cast time.
- I should look at the right abilities when I'm commenting on a log report....
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:38 pm

Alright, time to look at J/AS. They're moved to the spell hit table, let's see if they're also scaling with spell crit. Additionally, an early assessment of glancing blows.

Level : 85.
Weapon : Dalaran Sword.
Gear : Anything loaded with Agility (a quick list of stuff that can be purchased from vendors). VP/JP gear, suitable trinkets, anything providing Agi is fair game.
Target : any isolated level 85 dummy (no debuffs; it must be 85).
Attack sequence : AA (+SoI), J, attacking from behind.
Goal : at least 200 J casts (~20 mins).
Report weapon damage (alternatively, total AP), total physical/spell crit, upload the CL.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Flex » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:42 pm

I am 86 so not sure about how that is messing with the scaling, but I currently have 1529 agility with an increase in crit rate of .15% my spell crit as of this level of gearing is 2.73% and melee crit of 2.76% so I'm not sure I can be of help with that test.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:36 pm

Flex wrote:I am 86 so not sure about how that is messing with the scaling, but I currently have 1529 agility with an increase in crit rate of .15% my spell crit as of this level of gearing is 2.73% and melee crit of 2.76% so I'm not sure I can be of help with that test.

There will be a gear reset; compare Cata SSC and MoP SSC. The attribute/rating conversions seem "whacky" when only Cata itemization is available. Getting 2.76% physical crit from ~1500 Agi implies that the conversion factor is 500+ at level 86, unlike the ~200 factor for level 85.

The conclusion would be that all the tests based on ratings (as a generic term) must be carried out at 85 or 90. Anything in the 86-89 range is not suitable for this kind of tests.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Flex » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:21 pm

I would not trust those numbers, compare the level 81 stats of both of those helms with 488 Agi for the MoP one vand 161 Agi for the Cata one, why would the level 81 suddenly increase in power so much as to be on the same level as level 85 T13 raid gear? Heck, look at the level 1 scaling for the MoP one, 4 agi and 7 stamina for a level 1 heirloom won't happen. Additionally no level 80 heirloom took on the Cataclysm item level calculation when you reached level 80, so I don't see why that would change with Cataclysm heirlooms going into MoP.

Currently quest reward 384 greens have the same stat allocation as 384 raid finder gear. Which leads me to believe there is no gear reset, just a continuation of the Cataclysm formula.

Additionally, I was not getting 2.76% crit from that agility, I was getting .15%.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 am

lakhesis wrote:Test #17: Seal crit mechanics

Reports:
Log 1 (firethorn, 9.99% diff, truth): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ja13 ... details/6/
Log 2 (firethorn, 9.99% diff, righteous): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e1hj ... details/7/
Log 3 (dal sword, 9.7% diff, truth): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pzh1 ... details/4/
Log 4 (dal sword, 9.7% diff, righteous): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/78fo ... details/0/

Stats with Firethorn:
- AP 615
- SP 9,003
- Spell Crit 12.52%
- Melee Crit 2.53%
- Haste 12.49%, so 1.51s with the 1.7s base weapon. 670.43 dps (731-1295) with the 551.97 base (656-1221)


Log 1:
46/460 = 10% crit on Melee
10/164 = 6% crit on CS
18/271 = 6.64% crit on Censure ticks
48/624 = 7.69% crit on Seal of Truth

I'm not sure what level of crit to expect against a level 60. The formula I have for higher-level mobs would suggest a 15% bonus, so I'd expect 17.53%. But that may be capped somehow, I'm really not sure. Either way, we're not seeing a 10% increase in crit chance for either Censure or SoT compared to CS, so it's a safe bet that they both use melee crit. Similar results from Log 2: 8.06% crit for melee, 5.49% crit for CS, 6.82% crit for SoT, 8.12% crit for Censure.

Log 2: 7.16% crit for Melee, 4.82% crit for CS, 5.75% crit for SoR.
Log 4: 5.79% crit for Melee, 4.29% crit for CS, 6.68% crit for SoR.

Seems SoR uses physical crit as well. In retrospect, I should have asked for Judgement casts in there too just so we had a clear indicator of spell crit. Oh well.

lakhesis wrote:Also, would you like a thousand casts of so of SotR, or shall I leave that be for now?

Leave that be for now.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:29 am

lakhesis wrote:Test #22: Scaling with haste/crit for EF's over-time effect

Build:
Actor: Lakhe, with bloodlust from Syllabary
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: None
Target: Level 60 dummy, from behind. Roof of warrior trainer, VoH, org.
Attack Sequence:
- CS - EF - Lust - let EF expire
- CS - EF - Lust expires - let EF expire
- CS - EF - let EF expire x3

Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tquy ... details/5/

Gear:
- AP 615
- SP 9,452 (food & flask had run out compared to earlier tests, but I had the shaman sp buff.. and mastery buff)
- Base Haste: 12.49% (1600 rating)
- Spell Crit: 11.89%
- Had (mostly) the premade holy gear on so there's a heal proc from the Eye of Blazing Power trinket

Notes:
- Looks like it can crit and snapshots your haste at cast time.
- I should look at the right abilities when I'm commenting on a log report....


~13% crit observed, which is enough to feel confident that it uses spell crit despite the small sample size. Definitely snapshots haste when cast.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:42 am

Test #9

no haste, lvl 80 dummy, Seal of Truth. Single attack for each on clear and un-debuffed dummy.
Dal Sword/Brun. Axe
CS: 2266/2326 (physical only)
HoTR: 114 Phys 2456 Holy / 247 phys 2450 Holy.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:24 am

test 14

3.07% melee/spell hit, 0 expertise, pretty much naked (one trinket with a crit proc I realized afterward) with shield. only casting. SoT. Lvl 85 dummy. Uploaded log to the maintankadin WoL page: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0ry2 ... details/0/

The AS did bounce to an adjacent dummy, of the same type. At least once the miss was only on the first dummy, while the second hit.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:45 am

Tests 9/14/16 were already conducted, but Theck didn't update the leading post. Sorry for the confusion. For the time being we're interested in this one (level 85 Paladin), and this one (level 86+ Hunter).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:09 pm

tlitp wrote:Tests 9/14/16 were already conducted, but Theck didn't update the leading post. Sorry for the confusion. For the time being we're interested in this one (level 85 Paladin), and this one (level 86+ Hunter).

Oops. What was the result from 16?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:25 pm

Oops.

I'll give that test a try if I can find a suitable target dummy. The 85s being only in org/sw and everyone and their brother being on Lost Isles and seemingly wanting to smack target dummies may require some middle-of-the-night testing that I may not be able to do.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:31 pm

theckhd wrote:What was the result from 16?

1. Protection does benefit from SoB.
2. SoB still uses spell haste.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:37 pm

for the AS/Judgement scaling with crit... would gear chock full of crit be suitable as compared to equipping mail with agility?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:11 pm

Gonna try that test soon. I just went to Pearlfin Village and bought a full set of ilevel 372 agi mail gear (they have stuff for every slot, though I skipped the trinket because it's a proc), but now I have to wait for my hearth because the portals are bugged.

Edit: Chances of finding an isolated 85 dummy are pretty much nil, as the only level 85s are in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:49 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Edit: Chances of finding an isolated 85 dummy are pretty much nil, as the only level 85s are in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.


Yeah, I think someone's going to either have to get *really* lucky to get 20 minutes on an undisturbed 85 target dummy during the day, log in at like 3 am and hope for the same, or try to adapt to use a lvl 80 dummy that you can find in a less populated area.

If we're just looking for critical strikes to hit enough times... does crit chance change with target level relative to attacker?

Also, I'm seeing with a bunch of blue mail/leather ag gear (such as stuff from the links) that my spell and melee crit are identical. Is this expected?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:06 pm

Hmm, let's do this right. Before actually starting the crit test, let's make sure that things are "working as expected".

1. Take a level 85 Paladin (on beta, evidently).
2. Being naked, report race, Agility/Intellect, total physical/spell crit.
3. Equip several pieces of equipment that provide only crit rating (no Agility, no Intellect; 200 as the bare minimum). Report total physical/spell crit.
4. Equip several pieces of equipment that provide only Agility (ideally as much as possible; 300 as the bare minimum). Report total Agility, total physical/spell crit.
5. Redo #4 with Intellect. Report total Intellect, total physical/spell crit.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:33 am

Should be simple enough to do. The problem I noticed was in my full agi mail set I only had about 0.2% difference in spell and physical crit - I did check my base stats and it was 0.1% melee crit and 0.16% spell crit naked. Will edit in the full stats in a few minutes (also need to run back and buy a set of Int gear).

All done, turns out Agility is horrible for raising melee crit. I now have four different gear sets with weird mixes of cloth, leather, and mail. This gear vendor is a godsend for this stuff, though.

1) Level 85 Dwarf Paladin

2) Naked:
Agility: 93
Intellect: 105
Melee Crit: 0.01%
Spell crit: 0.16%

3) Crit only:
Crit Rating: 2164
Melee Crit: 12.08%
Spell Crit: 12.23%

4) Agility only:
Agility: 2652
Melee crit: 0.27%
Spell crit: 0.16%

5) Intellect only:
Intellect: 2978
Melee crit: 0.01%
Spell crit: 4.59%
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:13 am

Right. That clears a few things.
1. The base phys/spell crit are both 0.
2. The crit rating->chance conversion is identical to live.
3. The Int->sp.crit conversion is identical to live.
4. The Agi->phys.crit conversion is b0rked. Big time.

The test must be adjusted accordingly. Below is a C/P, with the alterations in place.

  • Level : 85.
  • Weapon : Dalaran Sword (it must be DS, for the 1.4 "speed").
  • Gear : Anything loaded with Intellect. VP/JP gear, suitable trinkets, anything providing Int is fair game. Do not equip anything that provides crit rating (very important).
  • Buffs : Blessing of Kings. Keep it on for the entire duration of the first part (first ~20 mins).
  • Target : any level 85 dummy (the debuffs are irrelevant; it must be 85).
  • Attack sequence : AA (+SoI), J, attacking from behind.
  • Goal : at least 200-300 J casts (20-30 mins; see note #2). After reaching this number of J casts, continue to AA for another ~40 mins (to reach a total of 1h+). The last part can be AFK-ed at will.
  • Report weapon damage (alternatively, total AP), total physical/spell crit, upload the CL.

Note #1 : Mages/Warlocks do not apply the spell crit debuff anymore, thus hunting for isolated dummies is unnecessary. The rest of the debuffs are irrelevant for this test.

Note #2 : The exact number of the J casts depends on how much spell crit you can gather (without resorting to equipment with crit rating). We're talking about 200 casts at 9% spell crit, 250 at 7%, 300 at 6%, 350 at 5%.
Last edited by tlitp on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:23 am

Easy enough with the gear I already put together. Will do it this afternoon after raid.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:52 am

Reran the numbers. The fact that we must use spell crit (hence Int) and that base phys/spell crit are both 0 is fairly annoying. It's advisable to muster as much Int as possible, because that decreases the number of J casts (i.e. the active part of the test). See the post above, I've edited it for improved clarity.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:08 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Should be simple enough to do. The problem I noticed was in my full agi mail set I only had about 0.2% difference in spell and physical crit - I did check my base stats and it was 0.1% melee crit and 0.16% spell crit naked. Will edit in the full stats in a few minutes (also need to run back and buy a set of Int gear).

All done, turns out Agility is horrible for raising melee crit. I now have four different gear sets with weird mixes of cloth, leather, and mail. This gear vendor is a godsend for this stuff, though.


Yep, I see precisely the same thing (Human paladin at 85).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:13 am

Intellect: 3615
Crit rating: 0
Melee crit: 0.01%
Spell crit: 5.57%

Melee hits: 2299, crits: 1
Judgement hits: 518, crits: 37

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mx0g ... etails/33/
(Don't know an easy way to get rid of all the noise from other players using dummies, unfortunately)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:08 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Intellect: 3615
Crit rating: 0
Melee crit: 0.01%
Spell crit: 5.57%

Melee hits: 2299, crits: 1
Judgement hits: 518, crits: 37

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mx0g ... etails/33/
(Don't know an easy way to get rid of all the noise from other players using dummies, unfortunately)


depending on what tools you have available (like say something like the unix commands cat and grep), you may be able to copy only the entries which have your character's name in them into a separate file. I had to do that with one of mine.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:53 am

There's really no need, WoL can do almost all the filtering you'd care about natively.

<edit> Also, that test seems to confirm that J uses spell crit (~7% observed crit rate, 95% CI of ~2%).
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