[10H] Spine of Deathwing

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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Ghuul » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:12 am

jekoh wrote:I am not convinced you have less debuff to heal, in one side you have a low hp tentacle but you have maybe to wait for correct timing between the grip and the plate fly so time opportunity to have one buff more to heal, in the other side you have a full hp tentacle to kill ( around 700k so time opportunity to have one buff more to heal) but you don't wait and you may interrupt a cast of debuff when killing the tentacle. so that's not clear and easy to conclude
But what is sure is, if you spare a tentacle kill before the roll phase you have less dispel to do but you also have a earth blood buff less.


You are right, we have more debuffs to heal on the long run, because our kill takes much longer because of the fiery grip timer based tendon phases (we need round about 12 minutes). But: With the timer strategy, the one tentacle is almost dead when the plate flies off, and we only have to focus down another tentacle which results in less healing debuffs in that period of time which was essential for us, because with your strategy we had about 5-6 healing debuffs which we could not handle (we do not always have a restro shaman with his totem).
So we have to do more healing overall but we have less critical situations.
And with 1-2 DPS passivly AOE-ing the bloods, our bloodtank never has to kite any bloods.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Shanudis » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 am

Well we got it down last night, just before the nerfs, woohoo.

Settled on the following strat and comp, for reference:

Tanks:
Feral druid (Amalgamations)
Protection Paladin (Bloods)

Healers:
Restoration druid
Holy Paladin
Holy Priest

DPS:
Elemental Shaman
Balance Druid
Survival Hunter
Subtlety Rogue
Arcane Mage

We had the Elemental Shaman keeping blood under control full time with me (except during lifts). The Arcane Mage was on grip breaks with the shaman as backup (In order to focus only DD instead of DoTs for better control of when the corruptions died).

I tanked the blood at the plate, slightly offset to the left side. The bear tanked the Amalgamations off to the right side slightly. As said before, the elemental shaman remained on blood until the first lift on the second plate. This kept bloods under control at all times.

At plate transitions, the druid would pick up both amalgamations and tank them on the right side, at the second hole from the front. Here's a diagram:

o o o
D
R
o o o

Where o's are the holes, D is the druid, and R is the raid and bloods. We would clear out all bloods after the second amalg spawned, move to roll, druid comes in, sweeps up all bloods, and the amalgs get launched. We ended up with only 3-4 bloods up after the last roll. From here I tanked all bloods until the first lift, after which I began kiting. I would hit HW, run to the far end, hit HW again, run back to the front, pop a CD, wait for DR to fall off, repeat. The bear began picking up all bloods that I couldn't. We used heroism/bloodlust on the first lift of the third plate. We also called for a hard AoE on bloods when the first amalg on the third plate was low in order to cut them down for the final phase.

In retrospect, kiting probably wasn't needed, but better safe then sorry.

As for specifics for blood tanking as a paladin, I ran block cap with Stay of Execution and the dodge valor trinket, with gear reforged for avoidance past block cap. This massively cut down on damage intake compared to my standard build (one stam/one mastery trinket). I gained around 4% avoidance, plus the two CDs from the mastery trinket and Stay. Kiting was fairly easy but picking up adds was less so, so we let the druid take over at that point and I simply would hammer and concecrate to pull as many off him as I could when I kited back to the front. We also utilized lifegrip to skip the second stun for easier kiting (DR would fall off by the time the bloods reached the front again, so I could stun and run to the back immediately).

Good luck to everyone still working on it, the next wave of nerfs on Tuesday should make this quite a bit easier still.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:00 pm

One shot this yesterday, 2 tank, 3 heal, rest dps. Did the soaking of some adds in between rolls and didn't start to kite till the last lift. Kiting was necessary, when they caught up to me I got rofl stomped. We were getting the tendons to like 20 percent every time so part of the problem was they were probably using cooldowns on the tendon instead of amyg.

I just still think this fight would be better to one tank. Healers would just be focued on one tank, the one tank would get both debuffs right off the bat taking 40 percent reduced damage the whole time ( there is no way i could have survived without those debuffs/buffs).

Also even if we only get say the first 2 tendons down in one lift, and the last tendon down in two that is 10 percent extra hp for everyone, making it a lot easier. Some more folk need to post their one tank success cause i don't want to two tank that fight again next week.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Shanudis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:36 am

I'm seriously having trouble seeing the benefits of one tanking. We tried it, and it was awful. Two tanking was much easier, as each tank has a specific job, and the additional DPS isn't worth it (though you can do one lift if you 2 heal 1 tank, but again, not sure this is worth it). We 1.5 tanked it (bear druid) our first kill last week and straight up 2 tanked it this week. Last week took us 7 pulls to down on our kill night, and we 2 shot it last night.

tldr: two tank better than one tank unless you can one lift each plate. IMO of course.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:05 am

Shanudis wrote:I'm seriously having trouble seeing the benefits of one tanking. We tried it, and it was awful. Two tanking was much easier, as each tank has a specific job, and the additional DPS isn't worth it (though you can do one lift if you 2 heal 1 tank, but again, not sure this is worth it). We 1.5 tanked it (bear druid) our first kill last week and straight up 2 tanked it this week. Last week took us 7 pulls to down on our kill night, and we 2 shot it last night.

tldr: two tank better than one tank unless you can one lift each plate. IMO of course.


I don't know I just picture with our DPS make up getting it down in 1 lift every time with 1 T, 3 Heals. Even if we get only one tendon down in one lift with lust, it still gives everyone percent more HP. All 400 + ilevel , fury warrior, legendary rogue, legendary mage, legendary spriest, surv hunter, and then me as ret. I usually do as much as a rogue + could reforge completely out of expertise for spine since the tendons don't dodge/block. Also ret paladin would be in charge of killing bloods with divine storm which wouldn't ever miss.

I just like how one person described it the faster you get the amyg down the quicker you do the lifts, the quicker the fight is. Half the time you're waiting on the amyg to get low enough. You can always kill the bloods super fast. Only time you are ever waiting on bloods is the first lift on first plate. So basically even if you dont get down in one lift, then you are cutting time drastically between amygmamations.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Era » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:17 pm

We're having a little trouble with the bloods aggroing healers/DPS on the last plate. Any quick tips to controlling them better? Paladin tank kiting them.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:38 pm

From what we do, when I decide I need to kite, is that the entire raid moves up from standing on me, to standing on our feral tank up against the plate and he swipe spams. He can even Challenging Roar if need be. When I come back up from the back of the spine, I pick up what I can off of him, and move on.

I would also make sure your paladin tank has the three-bounce shield and maybe even a harder hitting cleave. This is also probably the only fight I use consecrate, but not spec'd into it, I just drop it on the raid and move along.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Lehvin » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:20 am

So. If you dispel the good debuff, it jumps on someone else or disappears?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Shanudis » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:02 am

Jumps to someone else. We have never seen it turn back into death, so it's fairly safe to spam dispel until it is on a tank.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Era » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:03 am

It was changed about a month ago - It no longer changes back to death. The dungeon journal and many online guides haven't been updated, though.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Rhiannon » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:16 am

Era wrote:It was changed about a month ago - It no longer changes back to death. The dungeon journal and many online guides haven't been updated, though.


It hasn't jumped back to death since week 1 or 2 of the instance (if it ever made it to live at all), certainly never did when we were progressing it (week 2 onwards).
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Era » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:28 am

Yeah, got my times wrong but was too lazy to fix it :P

Don't think the Dungeon Journal has been updated though. Pretty unreliable; wonder why they don't update it with changes... can't be that hard!
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby jekoh » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:17 pm

Era wrote:Don't think the Dungeon Journal has been updated though. Pretty unreliable; wonder why they don't update it with changes... can't be that hard!


That's somewhat ironic when you consider what was said early on the subject in blue posts : the Dungeon journal is created for players to avoid to switch on internet looking on forums to seek information on boss mechanics and abilities which are often false or incorrect ... what a joke
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Era » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:04 pm

Yeah. They say a lot of things. :roll:

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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Volitaire » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:31 am

We finally got this down last night 3 healing, 2 tanking. Took us about 3 weeks of work to finally get it. Time to move on to Madness...
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