[DK] The DK Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:03 am

Fix your Hodir rep.

If you can get into a Nax25 get yourself a Broken Promise, failing that, even a 1.6 speed weapon will be a noticeable threat upgrade. Worst case scenario is getting yourself a Battlestar.

Ghetto trinkets. Get a Black Heart; the armor proc will be better for you in most fights, and there's always the option of swapping to dual ghettos for supermagicPOW fights.

I'd probably get the sigil next. The proc is love~ and will help muchly with threat gen (from more Runestrike procs)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:21 am

Sadly i have quite a bad luck with drops,so never seen a black heart(i was running around with Goosammer + Sonic booster before the brewfest :roll: )

Guess i'll get the sigil then,and wait a bit more to see if i can sneak into any raid for other upgrades
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:36 am

1 month later...

Still no luck with weapon drops (nor with trinkets),i managed to collect something anyway

So,now i have,sitting in my bag

-new bracers (dreadscale bracers 232)
-new chest (chestplate of the warden)
-new gloves (t9.0)
-95 emblem of triumph

So i was thinking how to swap thing around and i ended up with this plan http://www.chardev.org/?profile=244204
Still,i'm not sure this is the best upgrade path :?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Ballador » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:13 pm

BACK TO THE TOP!!!... j/k

What I'm looking for is a Heroic only tank spec. I'm looking to play my DK as DPS but in order to do that I need gear and to get gear I need badges. This wont be my main so regularly raiding for gear drops is not something I have time for. I know what you’re thinking. Why don't I just run heroics as DPS? And the short answer to that is I'm just 1 Plate DPS in an ocean of plate DPS. So I'm hoping, being able to tank will make me more appealing.

This post does looking promising but I’m at work so I can’t check out the wowhead link till I get home.
Levantine wrote:You're overcomplicating your AoE rotation somewhat. Frost has it the easiest in this regard, in that our AoE rotation is probably the simplest of the three specs.

HB -> DnD -> BB (This assumes the Glyph of Howling Blast)

I would personally recommend THIS as a balanced spec between AoE and Single Target. Bladed Armor is your best threat investment beside Annihilation and Frost Strike at low gear levels, PLEASE don't get rid of it. Scent of Blood keeps the Rune Strike spam happening which is important when Frost tanks like to spam their runic power dump.

Single taget threat rotations go something like:

PS -> IT -> BS -> BS -> OB -> Dump
OB -> OB -> OB -> Dump

But what it really boils down to is keeping diseases up, keeping your Blood Runes on cooldown, and spamming Obliterate/Frost Strike. Macro Rune Strike to everything, it accounts for a majority of your threat as a tank on a standard fight (Standard as in not a stinky caster that your threat's GOING to suck against).


What I’m looking for from the spec is to make holding agro and taking hits as loleasymode as possible similar to my pally.(I know it wont be as easy but that’s fine :)

Any Talent tree is fine, DW or 2H don’t care have weapons for both but defence cap could be an issue so 2H with Stoneskin will be proffered, gear will prolly be 200ilvl epic if it matters(Weapons are 219)

What Glyphs?
What Rotation/FCFS for trash/boss?

TL;DR: I’m looking for a spec/rotation designed for only heroics raid tanking is not something I want to do on my DK. If what I’m looking for is what lev has already posted great if there is something I could change given my gear and what I’m looking to do please tell me.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:11 am

You should have waited until you got home. Now I'm going to troll you for being stupid and impatient when everything you asked for was in the post of mine you quoted.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby cerwillis » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:03 am

My DK tank was very happily DW frost. Last night, I got the cleaver from h HoL, and I was feeling a bit squishy on Koralon, so I runeforged stoneskin gargoyle and replaced some defense gems with stamina, adding about 3k hp. I assume that I can stay frost, even with a 2h, but I guess I need suggestions for how to modify my spec, at least until the DW def 'forge comes out. I'm using a 10/56/5 spec that I picked up from this thread iirc. Armory link in sig, and ty for any advice.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:11 am

Well, My DK (link in sig) is the pretty standard cookie cutter 15/51/5 Frost tank build. You can cut points out of Bladed Armor to pick up a lower Cooldown on Death and Decay and/or longer diseases.


I can see a case for the quicker DND, and sometimes I wish I had it, but I don't see the point in longer diseases especially on trash where I Howling Blast as often as I can, and only use 1 disease on trash.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Alixander » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:41 am

IMO, you don't need a lower cooldown on DnD. When I was tanking on my DK (frost as well with a 15/51/5 spec too), most of my AOE threat was created via Howling Blast. 8 second cooldown with possibly more if you get a Rime proc, plus it can crit every target if you have a Killing Machine proc up. I'd rather use HB over DnD for threat generation any day of the week.

Personally, I find 21 second diseases to be unwieldy and wasteful. Either way you're refreshing your disease(s) every rotation, only instead you're doing it at the end instead of the start. I mean with a 21 second disease you could technically try to get the disease applying power off with a second to spare, but this runs the risk of down time with lag or a sudden need to do something else (taunt, use a cooldown ability, etc).
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Ballador » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:35 pm

Levantine wrote:You should have waited until you got home. Now I'm going to troll you for being stupid and impatient when everything you asked for was in the post of mine you quoted.


Well Thanks Lev even though your reply was full of hate and sarcasm your original post did help :)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:03 am

so ive been UH for both DPS and tank spec but with my OS tank set stil a tier behind my HP is still a little low. i have never been anything but UH, but im thinking about going blood waht are the main points i need to know. i usually just try to "win the DPS race" while tanking and that seems to always work for threat lol but i havent tanked anything outside of 5 mans since mid ulduar.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Kelaan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:38 am

Discerpo wrote:im thinking about going blood waht are the main points i need to know. i usually just try to "win the DPS race" while tanking and that seems to always work for threat lol but i havent tanked anything outside of 5 mans since mid ulduar.


I find as blood that my strikes are nearly always a better use of a GCD than spending runic power. I can't seem to spend my death runes fast enough. I sometimes refresh my diseases early so that I can dump some heart strikes, which is probably not optimal.

Other than that, it seems to play pretty much just like DPS, just with more awareness needed of what needs some extra threat lovin'.

If you mostly tank heroics, I'd suggest learning Frost. Blood's great and effective, but I sometimes miss howling blast's crazy AOE snap threat. I tank and DPS in blood specs because I like that my musle memory requirements are mostly the same in both. ;)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:56 am

Hrm, I wondered why this thread seemed familiar from something like six months ago...

Hey Lev, did you ever end up putting together that guide you were asking for input on? (And as a subsidiary question, did you get that input I sent you for that guide you were working on?) I was curious to see the final product, but never saw it posted.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:01 pm

Not to necro an old thread or anything... but how does everyone like the changes in 4.3. Increse armor passive 6% dmg reduction ect... I and still a primary dps but tend to offtank/ fill in for an absent tank now and then. Going back to farm some
FL(H) i find it easier to keep out of trouble while tanking. I even ended up as the 2nd tank on the two tank fights first week of DS. I felt i was either better able to adapt or just had an easier time than our Pali tank who wasnt able to make the first week. ANyone else?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Astronomic » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:41 am

I switched from bear to DK cuz "I'm lovin it"
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:21 am

I'm back from lunch, and as promised, here are my thoughts. Bookmark this, tell all your friends, Shoju is not complaining.

4.3 is a huge leap forward for Death Knight Tanking.
  • Blade Barrier being passive - Yeah, sure, it's a snooze talent now, not very sexy. On the other hand, not needing to take blade barrier into consideration for the purposes of Rune Tetris is a freaking relief
  • Death Strike Always heals, always gives shield. THANK GOD. There was nothign like wondering if I needed to stack more threat stats just so I could survive. I personally am not looking forward to this getting taken away in the new and improved active mitigation model. I like the way it works currently.
  • The Armor addition - 30% becomes 55%. gravy. I love it.
Blade barrier + more armor + Death Strike being reliable finally smashed underfoot the silly notion of trying to be an avoidance tank. There is just no reason to even debate it anymore.

With these three changes, Mastery is just point for point the single best thing out there for a DK tank. I'm sure there comes a point where it (mastery) isn't attractive, but so far, I haven't found that point.

Finally, I feel like the Death Knight in Raid Content, is playing the way it was in 5 man content when I fell in love with it pre-4.1. I don't feel like I'm a liability to tank Heroic Encounters. I tanked Heroic Shannox on Wednesday, and I didn't feel like I was holding my breath waiting to make sure that Jagged Tear + Melee was going to crater me. I felt like i was able to rely on things, and focus on rolling cooldowns, and focus on movement, and the rest of the encounter, and less on make super split second decisions to make sure I didn't fall over in a heap. (The first time I tanked Heroic Shannox, it made me a sad Panda).

I do think that we are a little more hit dependent now that outbreak has a 30sec timer, but that is a fair trade off for the survivability changes we were given.

If people have questions about things, let me know. Like I said in another thread somewhere, I feel like I'm a pretty good DK tank. I know I'mn a better Dk tank than I was a paladin tank.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:46 am

Ok, so I'm dusting off my DK, and while I'm primarily DW Frost, I'm still updating my Blood gearset. For tanking, which is a better 2h, Jeklik's Smasher or Axe of the Tauren Chieftains? I know ilvl/dps/threat would make the axe awesome, but I'm wondering for survivability, if the large amount of mastery on the smasher makes it the better choice.

Also, Stoneskin Gargoyle or Swordshattering? I'm assuming SG since it scales with gear, whereas 4% parry will always be 4% parry.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:09 am

Skye1013 wrote:Ok, so I'm dusting off my DK, and while I'm primarily DW Frost, I'm still updating my Blood gearset. For tanking, which is a better 2h, Jeklik's Smasher or Axe of the Tauren Chieftains? I know ilvl/dps/threat would make the axe awesome, but I'm wondering for survivability, if the large amount of mastery on the smasher makes it the better choice.

Also, Stoneskin Gargoyle or Swordshattering? I'm assuming SG since it scales with gear, whereas 4% parry will always be 4% parry.


#1.) Swordshattering. Unless you are REALLY undergeared for the content. Which means either: Woefully badly geared in 5 mans, or pushing serious hardcore progression.

#2.) The debate on the two weapons is pretty interesting. Jeklik's Smasher will give you some avoidance as well as the mastery. The Axe of the moo cows gives you hit, which is pretty nice for a DK tank right now, and expertise, which is pure threat, and some mastery.

I could make a case for either one really. The Smasher is the more "survival" based weapon, as you end up with approx 1 more mastery (6.25% on the bloodshield), and approx .5% avoidance, while the moo cow axe will give you hit, meaning you are less likely to miss outbreak and need to use normal disease application, and more dps via higher ilvl, higher hit / expertise, while also not killing you in survivability.

While I wouldn't take the moo cow axe over another 378 (say..... the Pit Lord Destroyer) I would PROBABLY take it over the smasher if I had a healer that I was comfortable with, or running content that didn't scare me.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:12 am

Shoju! Please tear this character apart (my own): http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/q ... i/advanced and tell me what she needs fixed (glyphs, gems, etc.)

I've taken an interest in DK tanking again and I like to have gear goals for my alts.

And what's this bajankle I hear about blood shield being different now? I haven't kept up with the changes and don't really know what's going on. I can tank... but I'm not overly sure I'm being effective.

Edit: As for my spec, tweak with it all you like, but I absolutely MUST keep the zero cost interrupt.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:40 am

Nika.

There isn't much to tear apart :) nice looking alt TBH.

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Your Spec and Glyphs look good. I use the same spec. I'm playing around with 2 things.

Death Strike Glyph, since I find myself pooling my RP more often now with the threat changes, and I'm de-emphasizing the use of heart strike on anything but trash, It's an option to hit harder with DS. Not sure if its a noticable change or not.

I'm debating moving another point into disease length, just so I have some leeway in getting outbreak back up. But, like you have mentioned, the point will probably end up coming out of the free interrupt to do so, and at this point, I still find myself on interrupt duty fairly often.



As far as gear goes, you really just need some runs. You look gemmed and enchanted right, You could pick up a new cloak from doing the thrall quest line (but the new heroics drop a 378), and I would get mastery trinkets instead of stam trinkets.

Fire of the Deep from Valor POints right now is FREAKING AMAZING. TONS of mastery, and the on use coincides with the CD on Dancing Rune Weapon, so if you wanted, you could macro them together and end up with a fairly nice CD.

Blood Shield always happens now. You hit death strike, you get blood shield. It doesn't matter if you miss, or get dodged /parried. it just simply always happens.

It's a HUGE QOL change for both the seasoned and casual DK tanks.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:08 am

Question: Until I get beta access (if I get beta access?), I might fool around with leveling my DK. I'll be doing blood for main spec (and probably Unholy for off-spec?). Out of curiosity, what's my priority order for strikes. The EJ thread suggests that it's basically DS>RS>HS, while keeping diseases up (with IT/PS and/or Outbreak?). Does that basically cover it, or is the EJ threat out-of-date since Gravity quit?

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Cogglamp » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:17 am

That's essentially the order of strikes that I do on my DK but I am by no means advanced.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:48 am

Your Priority:

Diseases up ->
Runes Open and not RP Capped -> Death Strike
RP Capped and not going to get pancaked for not DSing -> Rune Strike

Try at all times to keep 1 and only 1 blood rune activated so that your RE procs from Rune Strike are granting you back Death Strike Worthy Runes.

Also, you will need to time when to Bone Shield as it costs a "Death Strike Rune". Blood Tap is nice for that.

My blood spec Is a pretty common Blood Spec. My Glyphs, are probably debatable,but I prefer the DS glyph to the HS glyph, especially since I tend to pool my RP a little more than most DK's I've run across. The difference, in the hits is noticable, and both are pure damage glyphs.

While Leveling, especially in outland, Diseases aren't really worth it, but it's a bad habit to get into. (not using them). I know that I am currently tanking along on an alt DK with just DnD + BB + DS on trash, and only bothering with diseases on bosses, but you have to remember to break that habit.

At low levels, you will scream because you don't have a Taunt for another 5 levels, so if people get stupid, you will have to out threat them the old fashioned way. (shouldn't be hard).

I highly recommend getting a few addons.
A good disease timer
A good rune addon
And a Blood Shield Tracker

Learning how to time BLood Shields will take you from being a good tank, to a god. A good Rune addon (I prefer Runewatch, used on Compact mode) for my rune / RP / Disease management. And I believe the blood shield tracker I use is simply called "Blood Shield Tracker" or something else rather generic.

Another tip. I'm not sure how you have your hotkeys mapped on your paladin for CD's, but I find that my some of my CD's end up on more "common" buttons than I had on Shoju, probably because I have so many Cooldowns.

Looking over your spec, I would have put the points you have in Abom's Might into improved tap, and don't forget to pick up Blood Parasites. You can drop a point from Scent of blood. 2 points is really all you need.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:17 pm

With my DK now at 85, is it a fair judgement to put parry/mastery gems in red, fractured in yellow, and mastery/stam in blue to meet all socket bonuses? Or are there certain socket bonuses to avoid?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:51 am

Fenrìr wrote:With my DK now at 85, is it a fair judgement to put parry/mastery gems in red, fractured in yellow, and mastery/stam in blue to meet all socket bonuses? Or are there certain socket bonuses to avoid?



I have been gemming for all socket bonuses. If you were going to "pass" on socket bonuses, I would pass on Avoidance first, Stam Second, and NEVER Avoidance. Mastery (I shouldn't post when I'm dealing with a head cold)

but yeah, Normally I do

Fine Orange
Fractured Yellows
Puissant Greens

Solid BLues aren't.... "terrible" but I normally don't find it to be optimal.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 am

Alrighty, that's what I've been doing. Cheers.
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