Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

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Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Ventras » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:25 am

Hello,

Is 4-piece Tier 13 worth going for? If the DG bonus is really gamechanging, what slot should we use for off-tier/non-set item?

Thanks,
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Schroom » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:48 am

I go for 4 piece bonus and the shoulders as offset item.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Era » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:16 am

The 4-piece is indeed very valuable, as there's large amounts of raid-wide damage in Dragon Soul. And the popular off-set piece seems to be shoulders. :)
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby HammU » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:15 am

Especially in heroic modes, all the Tank 4pc Bonuses are going to be very valuable for most encounters.

And ours stands out above the rest, because it's not "stealing" one of our personal cooldowns.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:21 am

I really didnt think id say this, but the 2minutes are really really nice.
However i think we were cheated out of the range, as all the other tank CDs with setbonuses are allready 100yards, slightly to good imo.
Atleast i get to progress on bosses now, since there would be no reason to use a paladin tank over a warrior/druid tank with 4set.
Without the LFR gear, none of them has completed their 4set (as we didnt get them the normalmode gear as they allready had the LFR pieces)
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby PsiVen » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:21 am

Shoulders and legs are the only pieces you'd want to consider for offset.

Morchok shoulders with tier legs: pure dodge/parry
Ret tier shoulders with tier legs: dodge/parry/mastery and 1 wasted stat
Spine shoulders with tier legs: dodge/parry/mastery and 1 wasted stat, higher ilvl
Crafted legs with tier shoulders: dodge/parry/mastery with 1 wasted stat, no heroic upgrade.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Phonic » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:41 pm

And sadly, the only token I've gotten so far has been shoulders!! :p haha
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Jaitee » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:54 pm

Treck wrote:However i think we were cheated out of the range, as all the other tank CDs with setbonuses are allready 100yards, slightly to good imo.


not sure what you mean by this the range of all tank 4pc bonuses is 100 yards
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:36 am

I mean that the others automaticly get a 100yard range, while we have to live with a 30yard range on our aoe CD, sure with the 4set ours are 100yards aswell, but they actually gain a buff, we get a slightly reduced CD on ours that is in many cases worse anyway, especially with its duration.
Not saying the 4set isnt worth it, just saying that compared to the other tank classes, ours is incredibly weak 4set.
There seems to be real reason to choose a paladin over a warrior/druid given all have 4sets.
Yes you get an extra bop, and you the CDs for the different classes are different, but not only in our favor.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Ulfaran » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:24 am

I wouldn't call it weak, the 30yd range on Divine Guardian is really limited in situations where the raid isn't stacked and we also get 1min off the cooldown.
Also I'd say it's a pretty big deal that our raidwall isn't tied to our personal shieldwall.

As for off-piece, shoulders imo, either H:Morchok or the 403 dps ones.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Fenris » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:31 pm

Meh...

Our guild got 2 conqueror tokens so far (random is random but 90% of token drops as dk-rogue-mage-druid is so messed up) and i got both...One was for shoulders and i admit i got it by mistake (i messed up and swapped shoulder stats with helm ones in my mind,so i needed it...)

Now i need to find the less-awfull setup to work with (can't drop the shoulders for offset ones...My guild would kill me :lol: ) and i can't decide :?
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Didicow » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:11 pm

Fenris wrote:Meh...

Our guild got 2 conqueror tokens so far (random is random but 90% of token drops as dk-rogue-mage-druid is so messed up) and i got both...One was for shoulders and i admit i got it by mistake (i messed up and swapped shoulder stats with helm ones in my mind,so i needed it...)

Now i need to find the less-awfull setup to work with (can't drop the shoulders for offset ones...My guild would kill me :lol: ) and i can't decide :?


If you reforge the Parry to Mastery, then the CTC is still pretty good and you pick up a bunch of Expertise toward your DPS stats.

Not sure about your other gear, but I have one gear set with 2 LFR T13 pieces that I've put together to try and improve my DPS. I think this askmrrobot link works:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/09fbe607-62c8-4a92-aad8-1f726e6b38f1

I figure in our 10man team, I usually don't die until DPS starts falling behind on adds or boss enrages or I just screw up massively. In this gear I still get almost complete CTC coverage with better DPS stats (Hit and Expertise). As we recover from the holiday boss and start pushing into heroics I plan on playing around with "DPS" stats to try and push my total damage output
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby econ21 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:33 am

PsiVen wrote:Shoulders and legs are the only pieces you'd want to consider for offset.

Morchok shoulders with tier legs: pure dodge/parry
Ret tier shoulders with tier legs: dodge/parry/mastery and 1 wasted stat
Spine shoulders with tier legs: dodge/parry/mastery and 1 wasted stat, higher ilvl
Crafted legs with tier shoulders: dodge/parry/mastery with 1 wasted stat, no heroic upgrade.


I am starting to think about offset now (just need non-LFR tier shoulders). Forgetting about heroic items and assuming no spine shoulders, I think the crafted legs just edge out the Morchok shoulders:

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=77 ... 1820.71820

Basically, you with offset legs rather than shoulders get mastery/stamina rather than avoidance. If we assumed 150 stamina = 100 mastery (the gem tradeoff), then its 285 mastery vs 341 avoidance, which is a trade you would make if following the cap CTC/stack stamina gearing strategy. The 174 expertise beats the 37 strength for threat too.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:20 am

The t13 shoulders offer a socket more than the morchok shoulders.
And since stamina is what really matters (atleast in the later fights) the tier shoulders outrank morchok shoulders (given you can access them both at the same ilvl)
Spine shoulders are otherwise a good choice aswell (+100mastery +150critt +35sta vs 100parry + 200exp), they are even higher ilvl, problem is getting your hands on them, and i wouldnt go as far as prioritizing them over a dps as the upgrade from t13 shoulders arnt really that big.
Not to mention once you are at the point of the shoulders beeing available to you, you have access to enough gear to block cap you without much effort.

At a 397 ilvl situation, tier shoulders + crafted legs win easily, problem is that morchok is so easy that you likely have access to the shoulders at that stage.
But 397 tier shoulders will net you more stamina than 410 morchok shoulders cuz of that extra socket.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:20 am

The t13 shoulders offer a socket more than the morchok shoulders.
And since stamina is what really matters (atleast in the later fights) the tier shoulders outrank morchok shoulders (given you can access them both at the same ilvl)
Spine shoulders are otherwise a good choice aswell (+100mastery +150critt +35sta vs 100parry + 200exp), they are even higher ilvl, problem is getting your hands on them, and i wouldnt go as far as prioritizing them over a dps as the upgrade from t13 shoulders arnt really that big.
Not to mention once you are at the point of the shoulders beeing available to you, you have access to enough gear to block cap you without much effort.

At a 397 ilvl situation, tier shoulders + crafted legs win easily, problem is that morchok is so easy that you likely have access to the shoulders at that stage.
But 397 tier shoulders will net you more stamina than 410 morchok shoulders cuz of that extra socket.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:02 pm

Treck wrote:But 397 tier shoulders will net you more stamina than 410 morchok shoulders cuz of that extra socket.

That's true, but there's also no heroic alternative for several of the other slots. I worked out the math back when Meloree and I were having this argument, and the most efficient configuration came from using T13H tier Head/Chest/Gloves/Shoulder and heroic Morchok shoulders.

<edit> Dug through my e-mail to find the discussion:
Meloree wrote:If you're wearing 4pc, shoulders are part of it (2 sockets) over gloves.

Theck wrote:Disagree. At 397 ilvl, perhaps. But there's no 410-ilvl glove option, and the valor at 397 is parry/exp.

397+ glove option comparison
397+ shoulder option comparison

410 Tier gloves are under-itemized on STR; they have 71 less STR than the 397-ilvl valor option. Net change by using the tier gloves:
-71 STR, +69 STA, +93 Armor, +121 avoidance rating, -171 exp and +176 hit. I've assumed you stuff a Solid in both, so the tier is missing a socket bonus as well.

Heroic Brackenshell is over-itemized on STR slightly, but has dual avoidance stats. Net change from 410 tier:
+39 STR, -75 STA, +214 avoidance rating, -226 expertise. Note that this is with epic solids in all sock

Combine those and you have the following net gain by using off-set shoulders and tier gloves:
-32 STR, -6 STA, +93 Armor, +335 avoidance rating, +176 hit, -397 exp.

In other words, by choosing to use heroic tier shoulders and valor gloves to gain the extra gem socket, you're only gaining 6 stamina at the cost of 335 avoidance rating. I suppose you could use both heroic tier pieces, but then you're still only gaining 75 stamina at a cost of 214 avoidance rating, well below the gem exchange rate. And I don't think there are more attractive off-set pieces in the helm/leg/chest slots.

Meloree wrote:Damn wowhead for continuing to include the stuff that's in game files and doesn't actually exist. Damn them.


You lose 6 stamina by using the Morchok shoulders, but you gain more mastery (because both the Morchok shoulders and Tier gloves have higher single-stat values than the alternatives, thus more mastery via reforging), which means you can gem for more stamina to compensate.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:04 pm

Why would you ever use the 397 gloves over the tier gloves?
So i dont see why they are even relevant to the discussion.
Tier gloves are BiS no other option, Legs are BiS aswell, Head is BiS, and Chest is BiS, cant really argue on those 4 except legs might be discussable, but its about 100 sta differance.
So the real topic is, do you use 4set with shoulders offset, or simply use 5x t13.
And like you pointed out, its 75sta and some exp vs 40str and 200 avoidance rating, Im not sure what that ends up beeing post reforges.
So id say if you are close but not really yet at block cap and need a little bit more, the Morchok shoulders are your best option, id still take the stamina over the avoidance and go with t13 shoulders for progress, but its pretty close.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:40 pm

Treck wrote:Why would you ever use the 397 gloves over the tier gloves?
So i dont see why they are even relevant to the discussion.

If you were planning out your 4 pieces (for example, guilds who use DKP and have to bid/choose wisely), you'd want to know which 4 to get first based on your BiS setup. That affects which off-set pieces you pick up with valor, for example. That's how the discussion between Mel and I started, though only because he was assuming the 410 gloves in the game files were still an option.

Treck wrote:So the real topic is, do you use 4set with shoulders offset, or simply use 5x t13.

Fair enough, I thought you were suggesting using 4xT13 with shoulders and picking up a different off-set piece (gloves or legs). If the other four slots are already assumed, then it's a different question entirely, and one that potentially might warrant using 5xT13.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:46 am

Treck wrote:So the real topic is, do you use 4set with shoulders offset, or simply use 5x t13.
And like you pointed out, its 75sta and some exp vs 40str and 200 avoidance rating, Im not sure what that ends up beeing post reforges.
So id say if you are close but not really yet at block cap and need a little bit more, the Morchok shoulders are your best option, id still take the stamina over the avoidance and go with t13 shoulders for progress, but its pretty close.


Just checking, and in my current gear set, I can get more net stamina by upgrading to heroic Brackenshell than with heroic T13.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/blackrock/theck

Note that the stats given below are overall stats for the gear set after optimization, so they include all gem/gear/enchant/buff contributions. I've also forced it to use mastery food.

Current gear: +216 STA (after buffs) at the cost of 170 avoidance rating
Force upgrade to H. Backbreaker Spaulders: Still +216 STA, but now at the cost of 50 avoidance rating (and 120 hit from the tier shoulders)
Force upgrade to H. T13 shoulders: Still +216 STA, +158 avoidance rating, -75 mastery rating.
Force upgrade to H. Brackenshell: +264 STA, +191 avoidance rating, -109 mastery rating.

The primary reason Brackenshell gives a higher benefit is because the excess dodge/parry still gives some CTC, while the expertise on the Tier shoulders does not. This means I can shift more purple/green gems over to blues (forgoing bad socket bonuses) while still maintaining cap.

This is one of the reasons it's dangerous to consider a single piece of gear per se (by itself). The extra socket on the tier shoulders seems like it should give you a clear stamina benefit. But that's only going to be true for certain gear sets. In fact, I'm certain we can find a gear set where the tier shoulders do "win" in the Stamina department, but that set requires more items with large mastery bonuses than I have.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Treck » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:17 pm

For my gear, its a choice between 1300 hp vs 1% CTC, beeing so close to the cap allready, id actually be wasting mastery if i reforged it :P
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby palapower » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:34 am

Hi !
I got the Leg Token last night and I am not on Heroic gear yet ! So, would you advice me to change my Crafted Legs ?
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... r/advanced
I seems not advantage right now, the off-set legs give me soooo much mastery ! Seems better than the set.
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby Era » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:42 am

You have the 4-set bonus already, so I don't see any reason for you to swap to the tier legs if they're a stat loss. Also, you should probably post this question in the gear check/advice thread! ;) Keep the legs around until you get the Heroic Morchok shoulders.

Link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7896
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Re: Tier 13 Protection 4-Piece Bonus

Postby palapower » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:40 pm

Thanks Era ! I will ask there ! I got a Heroic Shoulder from FL/Alyz, wich compensate for the Mastery until i got Morchok one. This way i could be prepared already :)
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