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[10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby madmessias » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:49 am

Hespherus wrote:I dont why, but im almost certain that the drakes were casting barrages while they were being harpooned...Im gonna pay more attention next time. Guess we are screwed with 2 melee...makes it alot harder to soak the small ones.

Aslong as you kill the drakes in one go you only need to soak 2-4 or so small ones, if you dont solosoak (which makes it easier imo, not solosoaking that is) getting that number is easy, just utilize dispersion, glyphed divine prot, cauterize, and tankcd's.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Hespherus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:02 am

We are killing the drakes in one go and soaking more then 3-4 small ones. As i said the ship doesnt explode...its just there is FIRE everywhere when the 3rd wave of drakes are harpooned or in P2 making it very hard for range to dodge the shockwave.

So my only intention is to try somehow and delay the second fire spawning...from 75% to 50%...
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:09 am

Hespherus wrote:We are killing the drakes in one go and soaking more then 3-4 small ones. As i said the ship doesnt explode...its just there is FIRE everywhere when the 3rd wave of drakes are harpooned or in P2 making it very hard for range to dodge the shockwave.

So my only intention is to try somehow and delay the second fire spawning...from 75% to 50%...

I'm not sure if you know this, but the NPC's that are supposed to put out the fire, sometimes don't put it out fast enough. To ensure that the fire is gone for good, the best way is to pay attention to where they're dumping water, and walk into that patch of fire to make sure the graphic is gone. It also kind of works to your advantage since onslaughts can't spawn in fire, fake or not. However, from the sound of it, seems like it's hurting you guys rather than helping, so step on em good!

Also, I do think the drakes cast barrages when they're harpoon'ed rather than when they're flying in the air after dropping the dudes off. I'm not sure if this is intended, but I've also noticed it.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Hespherus » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:54 am

timoseewho wrote:
Hespherus wrote:We are killing the drakes in one go and soaking more then 3-4 small ones. As i said the ship doesnt explode...its just there is FIRE everywhere when the 3rd wave of drakes are harpooned or in P2 making it very hard for range to dodge the shockwave.

So my only intention is to try somehow and delay the second fire spawning...from 75% to 50%...

I'm not sure if you know this, but the NPC's that are supposed to put out the fire, sometimes don't put it out fast enough. To ensure that the fire is gone for good, the best way is to pay attention to where they're dumping water, and walk into that patch of fire to make sure the graphic is gone. It also kind of works to your advantage since onslaughts can't spawn in fire, fake or not. However, from the sound of it, seems like it's hurting you guys rather than helping, so step on em good!

Also, I do think the drakes cast barrages when they're harpoon'ed rather than when they're flying in the air after dropping the dudes off. I'm not sure if this is intended, but I've also noticed it.

Yeah, we do try and step in when the gnomes are extinguishing the fires, even thought it doesnt work all the time.

And i reviewed our kill, and the drakes were casting barrages while harpooned, so i guess there would be some benefit on maybe lusting on the second wave and pots/cds on the third(maybe leaving one drake alive to give more time to the gnomes).
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Lehvin » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:10 am

So we have like 50+ wipes on this one and we always have the boat explode. Reading some comments here, it seems impossible. We kill all the sappers, we soak all the big ones with the raid (if there is fire in the way, we have our mage blink in and solosoak) and ranged soak the small ones as they can from the start. According to recount, all ranged and healers soak atleast once. Isn't that enough then? As a melee, have to start running away from adds aswell and help with the soaking or? 2 melees btw and tanking these at the drake. Any tips? Just ridiculous to get to the third adds and have the boat explode every single time.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:21 am

I feel like you need to be consistent with what you're soaking. I also feel like that Barrages > Onslaughts as they're an all or nothing damage to the boat.

Your melee don't need to run all over the place to soak, just soak in an area assigned to them that's conductive to where the adds are being tanked.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:24 am

Lehvin wrote:So we have like 50+ wipes on this one and we always have the boat explode. Reading some comments here, it seems impossible. We kill all the sappers, we soak all the big ones with the raid (if there is fire in the way, we have our mage blink in and solosoak) and ranged soak the small ones as they can from the start. According to recount, all ranged and healers soak atleast once. Isn't that enough then? As a melee, have to start running away from adds aswell and help with the soaking or? 2 melees btw and tanking these at the drake. Any tips? Just ridiculous to get to the third adds and have the boat explode every single time.


It's not as simple as "soaking enough". The twilight assault drakes fire off barrages until they're dead, so the longer you take to kill drakes, the more barrages you will get. Are your ranged dps dotting up drakes as they fly overhead to drop off their passengers? Warlocks, sps and boomkins can easily get a full round of dots on both drakes as they fly over. Are all dps switching to the drakes as soon as they are in range? That means ranged dps starting on one of the drakes as soon as it's roped, and multi-dotters getting dots on both as soon as possible, and melee switching to drakes as soon as they've been reeled in. The melee mobs should be tanked on top of a drake so that melee/tank cleave dps is used most efficiently (edit: you're already doing that, but are the melee actually switching their primary damage to the drake when possible?). The slower the drakes are dying, the more movement is required from ranged to soak more barrages, which feeds back in on itself due to lower dps output from increased movement. The reason tactics like "ignore almost all barrages" work is because they're killing the drakes very quickly, so they're hardly getting any barrages.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Lehvin » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:24 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Lehvin wrote:So we have like 50+ wipes on this one and we always have the boat explode. Reading some comments here, it seems impossible. We kill all the sappers, we soak all the big ones with the raid (if there is fire in the way, we have our mage blink in and solosoak) and ranged soak the small ones as they can from the start. According to recount, all ranged and healers soak atleast once. Isn't that enough then? As a melee, have to start running away from adds aswell and help with the soaking or? 2 melees btw and tanking these at the drake. Any tips? Just ridiculous to get to the third adds and have the boat explode every single time.


It's not as simple as "soaking enough". The twilight assault drakes fire off barrages until they're dead, so the longer you take to kill drakes, the more barrages you will get. Are your ranged dps dotting up drakes as they fly overhead to drop off their passengers? Warlocks, sps and boomkins can easily get a full round of dots on both drakes as they fly over. Are all dps switching to the drakes as soon as they are in range? That means ranged dps starting on one of the drakes as soon as it's roped, and multi-dotters getting dots on both as soon as possible, and melee switching to drakes as soon as they've been reeled in. The melee mobs should be tanked on top of a drake so that melee/tank cleave dps is used most efficiently (edit: you're already doing that, but are the melee actually switching their primary damage to the drake when possible?). The slower the drakes are dying, the more movement is required from ranged to soak more barrages, which feeds back in on itself due to lower dps output from increased movement. The reason tactics like "ignore almost all barrages" work is because they're killing the drakes very quickly, so they're hardly getting any barrages.


Thank You very much for this. Clarifies pretty much all i still had not figured out. But yes, our ranged starts on the back of the ship to start DPSing the one drake. It drops the first elite off with about 65% hp left. But as for melee, i'm slacking for that aswell. As a warrior, i can cleave pretty decent, but dont usually switch targets. Will do that and yell at our rogue aswell. Thanks again.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:43 am

On all three waves a dot class ought to be able to get a round of dots on both drakes as they drop off their mobs too. The camera angle can be a bit of a pain though as you sometimes have onslaughts or sappers to worry about at the same time. I use a /tar twilight assault macro on my lock so I can be sure to get dots running on at least one of them each time, and most of the time I manage to get both.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:45 am

Hespherus wrote:
timoseewho wrote:
Hespherus wrote:We are killing the drakes in one go and soaking more then 3-4 small ones. As i said the ship doesnt explode...its just there is FIRE everywhere when the 3rd wave of drakes are harpooned or in P2 making it very hard for range to dodge the shockwave.

So my only intention is to try somehow and delay the second fire spawning...from 75% to 50%...

I'm not sure if you know this, but the NPC's that are supposed to put out the fire, sometimes don't put it out fast enough. To ensure that the fire is gone for good, the best way is to pay attention to where they're dumping water, and walk into that patch of fire to make sure the graphic is gone. It also kind of works to your advantage since onslaughts can't spawn in fire, fake or not. However, from the sound of it, seems like it's hurting you guys rather than helping, so step on em good!

Also, I do think the drakes cast barrages when they're harpoon'ed rather than when they're flying in the air after dropping the dudes off. I'm not sure if this is intended, but I've also noticed it.

Yeah, we do try and step in when the gnomes are extinguishing the fires, even thought it doesnt work all the time.

And i reviewed our kill, and the drakes were casting barrages while harpooned, so i guess there would be some benefit on maybe lusting on the second wave and pots/cds on the third(maybe leaving one drake alive to give more time to the gnomes).

Oops, I just wanted to clarify that the drakes START to do barrages when they get harpoon'ed. For example, drakes get harpoon'ed, but you don't kill them, and they fly away, they'll continue to throw barrages. However, the drakes won't barrage during the time between throwing the ground dudes off their back and being harpoon'ed.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Hespherus » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:31 am

Well, we 2 shotted it on sunday. we felt it made a big difference on the third wave of drakes, leaving one of them alive. That gave time to the gnomes to extinguish the fires and it gave us time to kill the melee adds, having a clean transition to phase2. There no was no fire on the ship so it was very easy for our ranged+healers to position themselves for the shockwaves.

We used big cds on the first wave, hero on the second and pots on the third.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Hrobertgar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:39 am

With the 15% nerf, we blasted through the first 5 heroics so quickly that we were able to put in several good pulls on this last night :D , and we will refine it a bit tonight.

Taking advantage of the 15% nerf on this fight, we are 2Healing it, which gave us 2Melee, 4Ranged which worked out well. With 6 dps on the Dreadblade he is like 50% or less before the drakes are even harpooned. The ragned blasting CDs on the first wave of drakes (2 Ranged each) saw them routinely go down in one harpooning only. and the melee adds were also down leaving us an add-free boat for the second set of adds. We are currently popping Hero to blast the second set of drakes, but dealing with the fire on top of everything else is proving to be an issue. I think this is a practice issue and as we get used to the fire we will more consistently get the second set down too. A couple times we got Onslaught inside a fire graphic so that was a minor irritant too.

Hopefully with a few small tweaks we can have a higher boat health too. I think we were generally around 8% boat health or less when the 3rd wave dropped. And probably closer to 2% boat health at what would be the ph2 transition if we were killing the adds fast enough.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Fetzie » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:23 am

What we do is have everybody soak the big voids, and we pretty much ignore the small voids after the second Barrage. We end P1 with the ship at around 20%. This was also the case with the 10% debuff. Focus targets are the drakes, we have the ranged dps go for the right drake, melee kill the left one while cleaving the melee mobs. This helps to reduce the amount of damage that the ship takes from the small bolts, especially as the drakes never break free. We have one of each melee mob still up when the phase change happens, they die to melee cleave. I take Blackhorn, and when Goriona lands I take her and the other tank takes the boss. We bloodlust, nuke goriona until 25%, then we switch to the boss. At this point the fight is pretty much over.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Firas » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:06 pm

It was said earlier about one tanking, which is what my group did last night. I picked up all the adds and dragged them to the dragon for extra cleaving. The off tank (DK) just runs around like a chicken with his head cut off absorbing small barrages, also we all stack for large barrages.

Just before p2 i bubble off all my stacks of crap and taunt Blackhorn, as the off tank picks up Goriona.

We let the DPS cleave them as they kill the dragon.

Our biggest problem is derpy dps not doing what they need to be doing and getting killed in dumb ways, like stomp or taking a barrage by themselves without any sort of CD.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:29 pm

The Tuesday mini-patch appears to have royally screwed this fight over. Last week we were beginning to consistently get to ph2 and made some improvements to ph1 for this week, yet got crushed by fire. MUCH more fire on the deck, I also did not recallt the barage debuff alsting so long, its 15 secs now, I thought it was like 6 secs last week.

Someone in our raid indicated that other sites are listing similar comments that the fire appears to be out of control. The second fire barely spawns and the first fire spawn already controls half the deck. We only made it to ph2 like once or twice between half a night each Tues and today.

Its frustrating because I wanted to beat this guy before the 20% nerf, and now the fire is costing us a week.
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