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[10H] Spine of Deathwing

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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:52 am

We tank the amagl through a tendon phase so there's no grip during the phase. It helps prevent unnecessary DPS going to break the grip.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Shanudis » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:03 am

Ghuul wrote:We run this encounter by doing very fast rolls after each plate, the first and - most important - the second one! To make sure that the "roll-phase" remains very short, we do not kill the corruption tentacle before each tendon-phase. Instead we load up the amalg with 9 stacks shortly before the second fiery-grip. Doing this provides you with a very low-hp corruption tentacle after the tendon-phase. When the plate flies away your range-DPS will be able to kill the low-hp tentacle within 3 seconds, while your melees focus down the new tentacle that spawned beside the tendon.


We have been doing this. We don't kill corruptions until after the lift. We have gotten our timing pretty good, so the grip goes out as the amalg explodes

After these two are down aoe down as much bloods as possible (this should take about 5sec) and trigger a barrol roll with all raid-CDs available (we have divine hymne, feral T4, AM, totem or tranc). When the roll-timer is at 3 or 4 sec left, your amalg tank has to kite the 2 amalgs through the resedue towards the raid to not get flipped off.
This was the key to our first-kill last week and we 2 shoted it yesterday with another raidcomp but the same strategy :-)
Good Luck!


So if I read this straight, you kill the two corruptions very quickly, raid AoE's down bloods, stacks up to roll, then the amalg tank pulls the amalg through bloods as the roll timer reaches about 2 seconds?

How do you survive the amount of damage going out from AoEing adds on the second-to-third plate transition? We are able to mop up literally every single blood on the first-to-second transition (usually two amalgs with ~6 stacks each) no problem, but by the time we reach the last plate there are too many bloods and if we try to AoE them down the healers can't keep up. Do you pop CD's as they get AoEd, or after they die and you stack to roll?

Also we have currently been doing 2 grips per amalg (technically three I suppose. The third grip comes right as we kill the corruption after a tendon phase). Do people usually take longer or shorter between tendon phases?

Honestly I'm feeling like we have the right strategy, just unsure how to handle that third transition. Our best luck has been ignoring killing bloods on the transition, but it's leading to me getting overwhelmed while tanking them. One attempt we had our amalg tank start picking them up, but that hurt our tendon DPS (not massively, but we did ~60% to it with bloodlust, instead of our usual ~65% without bloodlust). Plus he started spiking pretty hard when he got a lot of bloods on him.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:17 am

Don't AoE too hard when you're about to roll. The bloods do 22.5k physical AoE damage in a 200 yard radius to all members of the raid.

A lot of it might have to deal with not picking up the residue with the amagls right before you roll. Either you need to call out what way to roll or your RL needs to be calling it out sooner.

For example, when we're about to transition, we look at what side has 2 corruptions. I will then tank the bloods on the closest open hole to the next plate, killing them with 1 person AoE'ing them down. Once the Corruptions die, our Feral tank who is standing just to the other side of the bloods, taunts the Amagls. Once the first one gets to him, we all jump into the hole, and roll. The two Amagls on him should have soaked up 95% of the residue and the 3rd one that should be just spawning 2 seconds before a roll, may have picked up an extra or two.

I don't go into a fresh third plate with more than 4 bloods on me.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Winkle » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:07 am

Fenrìr wrote:We tank the amagl through a tendon phase so there's no grip during the phase. It helps prevent unnecessary DPS going to break the grip.


We just time a grip to hit as the amalgamation starts nuclear blast, the grip is broken by the time the tendon is exposed.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby jekoh » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:00 pm

Shanudis wrote:We're getting really close to a kill on this (wiping shortly before second lift on third plate) and I was hoping for a little advice.

I am my guild's raid leader and main tank (Prot pally). Currently I am picking up slimes while our feral druid tanks amalgamations. We have been killing slimes on the first and second plate (just our hunter AoEs them) and soaking all slimes up with the two amalgs on the first to second transition. We've attempted to do the same on the second to third transition, but healers said the damage was too overwhelming and that we needed to roll faster. Our best attempt I died when the second amalg was at about 50% due to an overwhelming amount of bloods. I'm guestimating that there were roughly 30 or so bloods on me at the time of my death. I was waiting for GANK to come off CD (Had to use it during the roll).

Is there anything to make this last part easier? We are considering switching out and having our warrior go tank and pick up bloods for easier kiting during the end (since we are more than good on DPS, typically seeing 30-35% on tendons after first lift). Alternatively we could switch in a blood death knight for either roll. Any opinions?

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/e ... s/advanced
Last nights logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6xicm69jwwafn5r7/


Before stacking at 9 the first amalgation of the 3rd tendon, we do some aoe to clean a little bit (don't need to kill them all) with raid def cd to decrease a bit the pressure on the blood tank as it allows also the have some residues ready to complete the stacking of the second amalgation as we knew some panic fails focussing bloods and lacking dead residues at the end of the 2nd amalgation. And around middle life of the second amalgation the blood's tank started kiting the 30 and more bloods he had and I replaced him tanking the coming new bloods and amalgations (even before I started to share some bloods and was close to die because of a dps not packed with bloods hitting me in the back).
And finally be sure to have your better cd like GOAK and holly wrath available for the end of the fight
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Brosterr » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:27 am

Shanudis wrote:So if I read this straight, you kill the two corruptions very quickly, raid AoE's down bloods, stacks up to roll, then the amalg tank pulls the amalg through bloods as the roll timer reaches about 2 seconds?

Pretty much exactly that, except i wouldnt say "raid aoe's down bloods". It basically requires you to have one or two other people (two mele probably) helping you aoe them down. The goal is to kill some of them, but not blow them all up at once, so whirlwind, shrooms.... things like that wont be helpful.

Shanudis wrote:How do you survive the amount of damage going out from AoEing adds on the second-to-third plate transition? We are able to mop up literally every single blood on the first-to-second transition (usually two amalgs with ~6 stacks each) no problem, but by the time we reach the last plate there are too many bloods and if we try to AoE them down the healers can't keep up. Do you pop CD's as they get AoEd, or after they die and you stack to roll?

Depending on your comp and how many raid cd's you have you should be able to do that. We have AM for the blood part, tranq when we stack to heal up, totem and dg as we roll. What helps is if you have a hunter and a priest. You have your amalg tank stand out with the 2 amalgs hell have, hunter md's the third (coming from where youll stack) to the tank who should position so the amalg wont get stacks running to him. You stack up basically right when it gets misdirected and you have the priest lifegrip once hes in place for the roll. He should be gripping him in to a totem if you have a resto sham, its godly. With whatever defensive cd's you have used there and not stacking for 20 seconds or anything crazy it really isnt that bad.

Shanudis wrote:Also we have currently been doing 2 grips per amalg (technically three I suppose. The third grip comes right as we kill the corruption after a tendon phase). Do people usually take longer or shorter between tendon phases?

That is the normal if i understood correctly. Not that theres a right and wrong, but we get 2 grips then kill the corruption as the amalg is pulsing 9 stacks. The tank just hangs out with that one amalg. (you might have been saying this is what you do, just came off a bit confusing)

Shanudis wrote:Honestly I'm feeling like we have the right strategy, just unsure how to handle that third transition. Our best luck has been ignoring killing bloods on the transition, but it's leading to me getting overwhelmed while tanking them. One attempt we had our amalg tank start picking them up, but that hurt our tendon DPS (not massively, but we did ~60% to it with bloodlust, instead of our usual ~65% without bloodlust). Plus he started spiking pretty hard when he got a lot of bloods on him.

It sounds like you are doing everything right except for the not killing bloods part, you kind of have to. It is amazing how chill it is now after that third role. You will have around 5-7 bloods right at the start. The number doesnt get high until right before the second plate lift. I can basically just stand there and tank them all now (20-25 on me). If its a bad attempt and i have too many bloods i just wrath and leave. And with hero and the 10% nerf make sure your offtank dedicates himself to bloods on the second lift. If you are really doing 65% you do not need him to help and he can save multiple lives with ease.

edit - I see you have no sham, but i would assume something like Hymn while you kill bloods (the most you should spend killing bloods is like 8 seconds, which is too much, dont think its some insane aoe of bloods, its just making your raid aware that more need to die than just the tank can kill) then stack and DG+tranq while using AM and rallying cry staggered a bit. Should work out pretty well.

edit - And a warrior tank is better than a pally for kiting, no doubt, but you can kite them with ease if needed. If you have those 30 bloods on you and you know you gotta go, wrath and run to the other end, let them catch you and pop a cd or two. Let DR run its course and wrath again, by the time you get to the front again youll get a full stun again. Just keep repeating that, you need next to no healing if you do it right. When its time to leave tell the other tank and he can take over bloods that spawn close. You keep picking up bloods that are spawning away from the plate, and also can try to get what you can off the bear (RD taunt, Hammer spam) to ease the healing on him.
Last edited by Brosterr on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Brosterr » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:13 am

Winkle wrote:A lot of people seem to be tanking an amalgamation through the tendon phase, why is this?

We only have 3 grips between each tendon, this leaves the corruption with 40% hp. Sounds like a lot of people are breaking the grip with to much dps.


Its because a zero stack amalg hits like a wet noodle. It is no big deal for the amalg tank (he could even get hit in the back if he sucks and still not take much dmg) to have it and you dont have to be perfect on the corruption. On occasion our hunter will have to call for help because the health is too high, mostly its about to go down anyways though. Why kill it after tendon when there is literally nothing to do when the amalg is blowing up is the point i guess.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Shanudis » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:44 am

Okay, got some good ideas for attempts this week, should be able to kill it. Gonna have to tell the healers to suck it up and that we need to kill a few bloods at that roll. Thanks folks.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Hespherus » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:12 am

Do you guys think its better to tank the bloods clsoe to the plate and the amalgamation at like 10 yards away with all healers, dps and the amalg tank, or should we tank both bloods and amalgamation close to the platem making sure the amalgamation doesnt get any stacks, to ease the healing and making it easier for the blood tank to pick the bloods easier and faster?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:23 am

I think that's more of a personal perference. One plate 1, I tank the bloods right up against the blood while our feral tank is on the raid. Plates 2 and 3, we switch it up so I'm closer to the corruption holes, and our healers like to stand way the f away, so it's a bit annoying.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby jekoh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:44 am

Hespherus wrote:Do you guys think its better to tank the bloods clsoe to the plate and the amalgamation at like 10 yards away with all healers, dps and the amalg tank, or should we tank both bloods and amalgamation close to the platem making sure the amalgamation doesnt get any stacks, to ease the healing and making it easier for the blood tank to pick the bloods easier and faster?


As long as everybody has the correct timing it's a matter of preference. Generally bloods run after healers as they generate bigger thread than dps by healing tanks and debuff so what we are doing :
- blood tank is closed to the plate with healers and dps packed on him
- I tank amalgation 10y away, dps packed on blood tank are in the hitbox to hit the amalgation
When the amalgamation reached 4% and there is enough residue close to plate I say I am going to stack the amalgamation, people move and blood tank move to be away from the nuclear explosion, in the same time I stack 9 the amalgation, he is generally a 2-3% life, 2 second later he starts casting the explosion I run away to hit and taunt the next amalgation from the dead corruption.

Doing this we found that the blood tank has no difficulty to build thread and protect the raid, people packed can have passive or active aoe when necessary to have more residue and I minimize the time at 9 stacks when it starts to aoe and when it explodes with no dps stop and immediate correct placement close to the plate
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Ghuul » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:51 am

We do it the same way with one exception: We do not kill the corruption. Instead we wait for the 2nd fiery grip and pull the amalgation through the residue when we have 3sec left. This way you have no amalg in the tendon phase where your amalg tank (probably a feral) can do insane damage to the tendon ;)
Another advantage of this tactic: When the tendon dies and the plate flies off, you have a very low-hp tentacle, which results in less debuffs to heal when you do your barrel roll!
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Hespherus » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:47 am

Thanks for the answers. Another question though, do you feel like its better to keep in check the blood number between rolls? What i mean is having a dps helping the blood tank killing the bloods one by one almost all the time, especially on the 2nd and third plate? Or should we focus all our dps in getting the amalgamation to 5% asap and before the roll AOE the bloods hard?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby jekoh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:08 am

Ghuul wrote:We do it the same way with one exception: We do not kill the corruption. Instead we wait for the 2nd fiery grip and pull the amalgation through the residue when we have 3sec left. This way you have no amalg in the tendon phase where your amalg tank (probably a feral) can do insane damage to the tendon ;)
Another advantage of this tactic: When the tendon dies and the plate flies off, you have a very low-hp tentacle, which results in less debuffs to heal when you do your barrel roll!


I am not convinced you have less debuff to heal, in one side you have a low hp tentacle but you have maybe to wait for correct timing between the grip and the plate fly so time opportunity to have one buff more to heal, in the other side you have a full hp tentacle to kill ( around 700k so time opportunity to have one buff more to heal) but you don't wait and you may interrupt a cast of debuff when killing the tentacle. so that's not clear and easy to conclude
But what is sure is, if you spare a tentacle kill before the roll phase you have less dispel to do but you also have a earth blood buff less.

For the damage, I was tanking the amalgamation and I tried to participate to the tendon dps with the amalgamation on my back (the feral tank with bloods do it also) but when you have not to roll between each half tendon phase, if without you, the raid is doing enough damage to kill the tendon in two phases, you do not loose time starting to dps the amalgamation yourself instead of the tendon so it might be globally transparent on the overall fight duration
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby jekoh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:27 am

Hespherus wrote:Thanks for the answers. Another question though, do you feel like its better to keep in check the blood number between rolls? What i mean is having a dps helping the blood tank killing the bloods one by one almost all the time, especially on the 2nd and third plate? Or should we focus all our dps in getting the amalgamation to 5% asap and before the roll AOE the bloods hard?


better to aoe the extra bloods, not needed for the amalgamation stacking, hard with raid cd def close to a hole before the roll so to be able to clean residues with flying amalgamation especially between plate 2 and plate 3 as all residues not cleaned will respawn during last plate whereas the normal spawn is already fast during this last plate without adding too much extra respawn

if it may give some ideas how to proceed or to avoid absolutely ^^ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZq7yr1dR1I
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