[10H] Madness of deathwing

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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:52 pm

Winkle wrote:Doesn't glyphed wrath stun them too?


No, they're not stunnable. Maybe you're thinking of bloods on spine.

Relying on shadnowflame to snare all of them is dubious at best, he should be using it obviously but I'd definitely have blast waves or desecrations as well.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Masanori » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:58 am

Winkle wrote:Doesn't glyphed wrath stun them too?

Glyph of Dazing Shield works, if you find a couple of the early ones aren't getting slowed/are late being slowed. It's not the most reliable but it's an option.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Agamemnan » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:34 pm

Been lurking in this thread for a while, thanks for all the tips and pointers as others have learned the fight. We finally got this guy down... various reasons delaying it. Here's our kill vid, hope you all enjoy the cartoons and music.

We 2 tank / 2 healed this. Phase 2 kicked our ass until we put together the part about not using dream except for fragments and 5%. Once we did that it clicked. We had a lot of really sad 3% wipes till that point got hammered home. Wish we had checked here sooner!

We tried various strats, all seem viable. We had the most time invested in the 2 tank/2 heal strat so we continued to do that. Looking back, 3 healers looks to be the way to go. For us, it doesn't make much sense changing it to 3 healers at this point though.

We do Green, Red, Blue, Yellow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPgzmh6vVGM
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:03 am

Agamemnan wrote:Phase 2 kicked our ass until we put together the part about not using dream except for fragments and 5%. Once we did that it clicked.

Is there a reason not to use Dream on the 15 and 10% AoE's? Is it due to the glitch mentioned earlier where Alexstrasza doesn't reduce the AoE output or just sometimes not having it up for the fragments (mistimed)?
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Agamemnan » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:44 pm

timoseewho wrote:
Agamemnan wrote:Phase 2 kicked our ass until we put together the part about not using dream except for fragments and 5%. Once we did that it clicked.

Is there a reason not to use Dream on the 15 and 10% AoE's? Is it due to the glitch mentioned earlier where Alexstrasza doesn't reduce the AoE output or just sometimes not having it up for the fragments (mistimed)?



Exactly what you said - if you use it during the 15 and 10% AoE's then Alexstrasza doesn't reduce the damage when she casts cauterize. The raid damage remains significantly higher. With 3 healers you can power through it. 15% is fine, but the 10-5% burn is brutal and we lost too many DPS once 5% hit.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Ghuul » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:22 am

Hey Guys. I've got some questions:
We run 1,5T3H on this encounter with one feral druids only soaking the first impale and then go for cat.
1. We choose the blue platform to be the last. Is spellweave still active there?
2. And how do you handle the parasite on the last platform? We try to let it spawn near the tentacle to get some extra-DPS from spellweave because of DoTs ticking on the tentacle, but we couldn't manage to bring it below 50% :-/
Any suggestions how to perform better?
Beside the 4th platform we have absolutely no damage-problems.
3. How do you cover the insane Raid-Damage when the elementium bolt hits the ground?
We have a roster of 4 healers (all 4 classes). Yesterday we run shaman, pally and disc (myself). We thought of using bubble, AM, 4P-Bonus from feral Tank when the bolt crashes and divine hymne afterwards.
4. Is it a big advantage to lust on the 4th plattform to get the parasit down much faster or is it important to have lust ready for p2?

Thanks for your advices! :-)
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:46 am

We just got this down last night, thankfully, so here's a couple of things on how we did it.

Our set up

Prot Paladin (me)
Feral Tank

Holy Paladin(normally a disc but he was MIA all weekend)
Resto Sham
Resto Doo-dad

Warlock
Arcane Mage
Rouge
Battle Turkey
Spriest


Our platform rotation is Green - Red - Yellow - Blue (yes, spellweave is still active to answer your question).



Our parasite on Platform 4 is dropped off by the corruption and we blood lust on the first one to kill it. We tried saving bloodlust till Platform 5, but it really wasn't working for us. The second parasite is dropped off in the same area, and we AOE down the bloods on top of it for the spellweave procs to get it sub 20%.

Our bolt was handled by Feral tank's Frenzied Regen and my Raid Wall. I think there was a Traq in there too, but I really didn't notice.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Ghuul » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:51 am

Did your feral switch into cat most time of the fight or did you kill the Boss with 2 "active" tanks and 3 healers?
It would be interesting to know how hard the DPS-requirements are for P2...
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:14 am

We killed it with 27 seconds left till enrage. Our Feral tank was full tank but he would switch to cat when not tanking but in all honesty, his dps did not break or make the fight.


Platform 5 is more about control than burning. If you can control the bloods and stopping DPS at the right moment, you'll get a kill.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby jekoh » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:59 am

Did it also last night, what a boring tanking fight compared to spine so disapointing compared to the feeling we had to kill ragnaros

Ghuul wrote:Hey Guys. I've got some questions:
We run 1,5T3H on this encounter with one feral druids only soaking the first impale and then go for cat.
1. We choose the blue platform to be the last. Is spellweave still active there?


yes

Ghuul wrote:2. And how do you handle the parasite on the last platform? We try to let it spawn near the tentacle to get some extra-DPS from spellweave because of DoTs ticking on the tentacle, but we couldn't manage to bring it below 50% :-/
Any suggestions how to perform better?


people in our raid used potions at this time, Once we killed the elementium bolt on ground, they switch to the tentacle, I take the bloods and wait until the parasite pop close to the tentacle, I pack the bloods on parasite and we aoe on the parasite. The tentacle dies shortly with spealwaves, the bloods dies sometimes later and dps keep dps on parasite until it explodes. It is generally sufficiently low to avoid big damage. and I use tol barad trinket to lower damage stacks from bloods and explosion. We keep bloodlust for the last 10% of the boss killing the bloods at 5% but ignoring schrapnel using dream and focus boss

Ghuul wrote:How do you cover the insane Raid-Damage when the elementium bolt hits the ground?
We have a roster of 4 healers (all 4 classes). Yesterday we run shaman, pally and disc (myself). We thought of using bubble, AM, 4P-Bonus from feral Tank when the bolt crashes and divine hymne afterwards


I use the divine guardian just before the bolt hit, I use also GOAK and divine protection as I take the impale few seconds later. other guys go some steps away from the impact, we had also a resto shaman using his totem to share life with other players and in particular those using imunity on impact, a priest using hymn, a pally using his bubble with hand of sacrifice on me, the other priest with dispers, don't know if the mage used his icebloc and we keep aura mastery and drood tranq for the cataclysme phase

Ghuul wrote:4. Is it a big advantage to lust on the 4th plattform to get the parasit down much faster or is it important to have lust ready for p2?


We do it on P2 but and I consider it was important in our strat to focus boss and bloods after the second spawn of terrors, in this way no enrage problem if you may loose some time on platforms and I think using bloodlust on parasite of the 4th platform is a loss for healers point of view (except if with the bloddlust you can cover the bolt hit and dps up to the end of the parasite). I am not sure for the pro and the con
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:24 pm

Quick question to the peeps who have their Rogue or Hunter soak the Impales. We usually have our feral Druid do it but he might not be here this week, so I might have to. Do I Feign Death while the corruption is doing the Impale cast and not get up until it's interrupted? Do I need to use Deterrence at all? Do I have to be in the melee hitbox or can I still be out of the hitbox but just the closest to the corruption? If yes, is Impale proximity-based? For example, if the tank runs out of melee, and there are other melee DPS in there, but I'm closer to the corruption, will I get the Impale? Thanks!
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby jekoh » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:29 pm

timoseewho wrote:Quick question to the peeps who have their Rogue or Hunter soak the Impales. We usually have our feral Druid do it but he might not be here this week, so I might have to. Do I Feign Death while the corruption is doing the Impale cast and not get up until it's interrupted? Do I need to use Deterrence at all? Do I have to be in the melee hitbox or can I still be out of the hitbox but just the closest to the corruption? If yes, is Impale proximity-based? For example, if the tank runs out of melee, and there are other melee DPS in there, but I'm closer to the corruption, will I get the Impale? Thanks!


from the rogue in my guild, when I was using hand of salvation on me with him to take the impale, you can get up after the feign death as it interrupt the cast.
If the tank is too long to cancel his hand of salvation after the interrupt, two cases :
- there is a 3rd player in the hitbox and as he has the highest thread he may take a melee hit
- there is not 3rd player, as you attack the corrup you are the highest thread in the hit box you may take a melee hit

From my experience, don't know if it is my internet connection but I always had a range of +/-1 second between dbm start impale cast and effective cast so that the rogue always used deterrence even before the feign death to avoid potential melee hit before the cast impale. We even did it with a priest and disperse and one time I cast hand of salvation too late so I was targeted by the impale cast and the priest (disperse too late) took a melee hit and died just at the beginning cast of the impale ...

The corruption targets the highest thread in the hitbox for the impale (nothing related with proximity based as long as you are in the hitbox) so if you are out of the hitbox but the closest you should not be targeted and I don't know if the corrup choose to target the tank with the glyphed hand of salvation or the aspect if there is no others players in the hitbox.
Once the target is choosen it is finished you can try to run out of the hitbox as far as you can and even jump to another platform you will take the impale (tested and approved :( not always good to have the cancel aura in the same macro and you are used to stress-spam ).
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Ghuul » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:38 am

jekoh wrote:
Ghuul wrote:How do you cover the insane Raid-Damage when the elementium bolt hits the ground?
We have a roster of 4 healers (all 4 classes). Yesterday we run shaman, pally and disc (myself). We thought of using bubble, AM, 4P-Bonus from feral Tank when the bolt crashes and divine hymne afterwards


I use the divine guardian just before the bolt hit, I use also GOAK and divine protection as I take the impale few seconds later. other guys go some steps away from the impact, we had also a resto shaman using his totem to share life with other players and in particular those using imunity on impact, a priest using hymn, a pally using his bubble with hand of sacrifice on me, the other priest with dispers, don't know if the mage used his icebloc and we keep aura mastery and drood tranq for the cataclysme phase


With Disc-Bubble, shaman totem and our shadowpriest dispersing (and our mage using iceblock), it makes the elemtium bolt a piece of cake! Thanks for the advice!

But now we have some other problems. We made it to P2 only two times yesterday but we always wiped for the same reason: Offtanking the terrors in the timezone killed our tank when the bloods were spawning. And we never managed to kill the bloods in time before they got to DW - they are as fast as hell.
Now we think about killing the terrors before we push DW to 15% to avoid tank death and to maximize blood damage and focus (including the slowing). The downside of that strategy is that P2 will take longer, which causes problems with the enrage timer.
To solve this we will try to offtank the bloods on the first two plattforms as long as we can - with the tanks mass-taunting them if one has too much stacks - and let our shadowpriest mindsear them near the arm-tentacle (without killing them) to maximize DPS on the arm-tentacle: Mindsear ticks every 0,6sec, which means 100k (5*20.000) Damage per 0,6sec onto the arm-tentacle.
Any doubts or suggestions on that strategy?
I think we can save 10-15 seconds with this tactic, which will give more time for P2 and the terrors.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:54 am

The way we're handling Platform 5 is this.

Our feral tank picks up the terrors first and just tanks them. Once the bloods show up where they're going to spawn, our rogue runs over and starts to fan of knives. I then taunt the terrors over to that spot and we AoE them all down. By this point, 1 terror was generally alive, so we just turned back to deathwing as the health of the terror was <5% and dots killed it fairly quickly. Once the adds were dead, the feral tank would tank the terror until it died.



For Congealing Bloods, you really have to make sure you got a person with a slow waiting where they're spawning. Be it Descretation from a DK, Blast Wave into a Cone of Cold from Mage, glyphed Shadowflame from Warlock, Crippling Poison from Rogue, Ice Trap from Hunter; but that initial has to be there.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby jekoh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:36 am

Ghuul wrote:But now we have some other problems. We made it to P2 only two times yesterday but we always wiped for the same reason: Offtanking the terrors in the timezone killed our tank when the bloods were spawning. And we never managed to kill the bloods in time before they got to DW - they are as fast as hell.
Now we think about killing the terrors before we push DW to 15% to avoid tank death and to maximize blood damage and focus (including the slowing). The downside of that strategy is that P2 will take longer, which causes problems with the enrage timer.
To solve this we will try to offtank the bloods on the first two plattforms as long as we can - with the tanks mass-taunting them if one has too much stacks - and let our shadowpriest mindsear them near the arm-tentacle (without killing them) to maximize DPS on the arm-tentacle: Mindsear ticks every 0,6sec, which means 100k (5*20.000) Damage per 0,6sec onto the arm-tentacle.
Any doubts or suggestions on that strategy?
I think we can save 10-15 seconds with this tactic, which will give more time for P2 and the terrors.


You should not have a blood spawn (that's not necessary) while you are killing the terrors, you have to stop before and be sure that dots on the boss will not pop the congealing bloods as you have not finished the terrors
You have resto shaman, what we did with him he used his slowing totem close to the pop area of bloods so that all bloods are slowed immediately when they arrive and when they ara no more in the hitbox of the totem, a mage was using is cone of cold and with our rogue it was far enough to slow them as long as necessary to kill them
For the terror, I took one, the feral the other one, people focus on the feral terror as I am more resistant than the feral with my tol barad trinket, a priest away grip me away at some time so that I loose the stacks and when necessary we ping pong the second terror between me and the feral until he die.
and only when it is done we push the boss to have the congealing blood spawn and take care of them

that's simple we did as written in posts before
- we push the boss to 18% (no time fo us to do more as tentacles pop)
- we kill the tentacle ( no 2nd schrapnel waves allowed)
- we kill the terrors
- we push the boss 16% congealing bloods pop we kill them
- we push the boss at 13%, we wait tentacles
- we kill the tentacles
- we kill the terrors
- we push the boss at 11% congealing bloods pop we kill them
- we bloodlust we push the boss at 6%, we ignore tentacles, people focus by schrapnel use dream
- congealing bloods pop we kill them
- we focus on boss, people focus by 2nd waves of schrapnel use dream, if you are unlucky to be focus a second times you die if you have no imunity
- we stay on the boss, terrors pop, boss die

I checked my combatlog, we took exactly 11 min to clean the 4 platforms (1.5T/3H) and doing the P2 as I wrote took us 3min38sec so 22sec left from the enrage

I think such artefact you mention trying to keep bloods will drain mana from your healer, all bloods outside the zone are stacking quick and it hits hard, you will loose some dps from healers in the meantime, the tanks will have to pay more attention on the thread, damage he takes and loose dps, if you use a feral he will no be able to switch to catform, you resto shaman will not have the time to dps and regen with lightning. Well I am not sure you will save so many extra seconds in the overall and keep in mind that the boss mechanic tends to highly reduce the delay you may accumulate on each platform with the cataclysm buff to finish the arm.

To save some time if you did not do it before and plan to use bloodlust only in P2 is to use it 2 times with the first time at corruption pop, ignore dps on the first 2 parasites but use dream before explosion and push the boss below 90% if you can on the first 2 platforms, your 3 healers should handle with no problem the aoe from the boss
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