"Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

[Fetzie]

From my own experience, Warlocks were threat machines. I rode the 128% threat wave from late T4 until Illidan (when I stopped playing) and was reliant on Soul Shatter to be able to push my maximum DPS. It was extremely easy to pull aggro.

[Fridmarr]

I can vouch at least for ret paladins being threat monsters. You had to hold back on every fight all the way through T6 until a bunch of forum spam made Blizzard wake up and realise that a 30% threat reduction had to be built into an existing talent. I re-did all of T5 as ret with a new guild when my old guild tried cheating on Vashj and I could without fail pull aggro if I wanted to on most fights. Stormherald was a beast back then.

Cromfel did some good videos back in the day annotated to show exactly when he needed to hold back but I don't think they're still up anywhere.

But yeah, there were a few specs that were outliers and this isn't really relevant to the topic.

But that wasn't until ret was buffed to be raid viable, early on ret pallys had no threat issues because their DPS was quite a bit lower. Threat became the problem when they got buffed like everyone else, but still had no threat reduction talent.

Warlocks were the biggest problem, but even then it took time and gear for them to scale. You should have long ago given up crappy level 70 blue weapon before you had to worry about it. Just given the scaling problem that has always existed with tank threat relative to DPS (which is what they tried to solve this expansion) classes being easily threat capped in Kara would have had major major problems going forward, which would have yielded a miserable experience throughout the entire expansion.

At this point though, this digression is too much, please make a new topic if you want to talk about it. Further threat related posts about TBC will be deleted.

[Fetzie]

I haven't got further with the Dragonwrath line than the first event with a cinematic in Caverns of Time (which was pretty awesome), but I have done the first set of quests for the 397 daggers. It was very interesting having to use things like distract, sap, vanish (improved stealth allows you to go a lot closer than you otherwise could) and showed me just how little I knew my rogue. If this is the future model for legendaries, then it will be awesome.

BUT!

What I don't like is the way that it forces you to choose a raider as "the legendary guy" who then feels obligated to attend every raid for the next 4-5 months, and ends up burning out because of it 3 weeks after getting the item. I don't like the way that a 25 man raid without a single hard mode could collect dragonwraths 2-3 times as fast as a 6/7 heroic ten man raid. Twice as fast for a 6/7 heroic 25 man guild I can live with. But a guild that is doing content that you can PUG, or even a guy that runs a 25 man PuG/organised group that kills 6/7 on NORMAL and maybe Rag gets it in less than half the time it took us really grates with me.

[Lieris]

We've finished the game and we're still a few weeks away from getting our first daggers. It is a bit galling that mediocre 25 man guilds with just Morchok heroic down got their first set several weeks ago.

[benebarba]

We've finished the game and we're still a few weeks away from getting our first daggers. It is a bit galling that mediocre guilds with just Morchok heroic down got their first set several weeks ago.

Is that due to the raid-size/drop rate difference or because of some heroic/normal difference? (honest question - I don't know how the process works)

edited: Though TBH, I never quite understood some of the logistical arguments for differences between 25 and 10 man drops (Particularly those that use the argument that because 25 is harder to organize and direct than 10, everyone in it should get better stuff. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but I digress.)

[Fetzie]

Is that due to the raid-size/drop rate difference or because of some heroic/normal difference? (honest question - I don't know how the process works)

25 man raids get 1-3 of the items that 10 man raids only get one of, regardless of difficulty setting.

[benebarba]

Is that due to the raid-size/drop rate difference or because of some heroic/normal difference? (honest question - I don't know how the process works)

25 man raids get 1-3 of the items that 10 man raids only get one of, regardless of difficulty setting.

and I assume that you can have multiple people working on it at the same time (i.e. in a given raid, you can have more than one person who is eligible to pick up those items)?

[Fetzie]

You can only get one player his daggers at one time. Stage one involves breaking the cluster open and looting the items inside it, and phase 2 involves collecting the clusters (but not opening them).

[Brekkie]

At this point though, this digression is too much, please make a new topic if you want to talk about it. Further threat related posts about TBC will be deleted.

Well that's a novel strategy to get the last word in a discussion!

[Darielle]

There's also no real boost for being Heroic atm as far as Gem Clusters the way there was in Firelands. The only way to change it would be to go to a model where you need multiple people on the same part getting it at the same time so that when a 10-man gets their Daggers, a 25-man gets 2-3 Daggers in one go. Considering 25-man has Berserks that are magnitudes more punishing and tuned around that sort of ridiculousness, it kind of feeds itself atm anyway.

Well that's a novel strategy to get the last word in a discussion!

Have to admit, I did chuckle.

[Fridmarr]

Well that's a novel strategy to get the last word in a discussion!

I thought so too, but it failed the 3 previous times.