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"Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

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"Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:26 pm

So, I should have known better than start a thread about this over on MMO, but whatever. So I'll just come here and pose the question to a group of people who actually might use a braincell or two.

~.~.~.~.~.~

Do ~not~, under any circumstance, take this for a QQ thread about lengendaries. This is just a general discussion thread.

So, given the recent blue post concerning the lengendaries this patch; I started to wonder about this phrase Blizzard uses. Now, I know Blizzard has access to more data than we do, but I still think this is a vastly wrong phrase to use.

I mean, "overwhelming positive"? With who? The rogues? I can understand the casters giving some positive feedback because the 4.2 lengendary encompassed quite a few different classes and specs. But the 4.3 one?


Do you think Blizzard is just looking at those classes and not at the whole player base?


I know people don't hate this game. I have been playing since launch and have watched the forums consistently flood with QQ'ing over lengendaries, new content, etc. However, I just don't see how a company can pull "overwhelming positive" to feedback when, taking the 4.3 lengendary into view, they're only really looking at one class. I, as a tankadin, know nothing about these quests so I do not see how they (Blizzard) can state that the vast number of the community enjoys what they've done with these quests and items.

I think this is a very biased view on how to state "overwhelming positive". Of course the classes that get the lengendary are going to give nothing but praise about it. Then be all out for blood when it isn't. I do have a rogue, but I will admit I have not done the quests for them as she's just a bank alt now.

And no, mate, I'm not upset that they get to enjoy those quests, I'm merely asking how people feel about Blizzard stating "overwhelming positive" feedback when, in a way, the sample size is limited.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:29 pm

If I make something for demographic X and get overwhelming positive response from demographic X I will use that term.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:45 pm

In today's blog they're talking specifically about the quest design on the legendary chains, not the initial choice to implement the Fangs as a single-class experience.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Shoju » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:48 pm

Don't get me wrong, even if they wont admit it, I think it's fantastic that they did legendaries that were geared towards the 2 least played classes this expac. (rogue and warlock).

The problem I have is that they said that class specific legendaries were a thing of the past in WotLK, only to do an about face, and make a class specific legendary.

Overall, I feel like there has been a lot of love heaped at the rogue this expac. It's a little frustrating, if only because it gets old as a non rogue.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Amusingly enough the slow death of the main hand sword killed any rogue love I had.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:02 pm

Well, given their statements, we'll probably get in Panda something similar to Cata. One multi-class legendary, and one restricted one.

Here's hoping that it's a hunter weapon for the restricted one... :D

For the multi-class, hopefully it will be tanking related...

But to your point, I think Blizz can put on the blinders if they want to. They are likely looking to specific audiences regarding feedback, and measuring success there. Much as will LFR, they measured succcess based on the casual audience feedback, not based on the hard-core raider drama.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Firas » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:12 pm

Blizzard had Fox news run their polls.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Amirya » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:30 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:In today's blog they're talking specifically about the quest design on the legendary chains, not the initial choice to implement the Fangs as a single-class experience.

Speaking specifically to the quest design for the first part of the rogue legendary, then yes, the quest itself is fantastic.

Huge difference between, "What do you think of how legendary weapons are evolving?" and "What do you think about the quest chain leading to you earning a legendary?"
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Firas » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:36 pm

I don't know about you but the first set of daggers were a pain for me, I hardly play my rogue so when I went to kill the dragon for the final part of the first series I kept getting the crap kicked out of me. Everything I read it seemed more like a pvp fight than a pve encounter. The only way I ended up beating him was a couple other rogues showed up.

For someone who only plays a rogue about one a month or when new dungeons come out this was a pain.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:40 pm

I'm definitely with the folks who are thinking that the specific comment was refering to something about the quests themselves rather than the design of the legendary experience overall.

Also, I've learned to read what are basically PR statements by removing certain qualifying words like 'overwhelmingly' or 'slightly' in my mind. Rigor doesn't necessarily in such statements.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:45 pm

Firas wrote:I don't know about you but the first set of daggers were a pain for me, I hardly play my rogue so when I went to kill the dragon for the final part of the first series I kept getting the crap kicked out of me. Everything I read it seemed more like a pvp fight than a pve encounter. The only way I ended up beating him was a couple other rogues showed up.

For someone who only plays a rogue about one a month or when new dungeons come out this was a pain.


Yeah, but to be honest, I wouldn't expect any less. If they made it too easy, then it would feel cheap to those who have rogue mains or play them a lot.

One thing folks seem to post a lot about is wanting quests that actually ask you to use your class to a fairly competant extent - not just running through your DPS rotation until the loot falls. This is one problem I had with the 'collect X, Y and Z object' type class quests. It doesn't really take much to right click some wood in SFK and be around to loot a boss, for example.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Amirya » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Firas wrote:I don't know about you but the first set of daggers were a pain for me, I hardly play my rogue so when I went to kill the dragon for the final part of the first series I kept getting the crap kicked out of me. Everything I read it seemed more like a pvp fight than a pve encounter. The only way I ended up beating him was a couple other rogues showed up.

For someone who only plays a rogue about one a month or when new dungeons come out this was a pain.

I play my rogue less than you do (once every quarter or so, maybe). I'll admit it took me a good three or four days to do this, and it did force me to relearn some of the new rogue things.

Some of my problems: I was overdoing everything (like moving out of the void circles, I took off far, instead of getting just to the edge); I was way off on timing, and blew some abilities too early; I didn't use all of the abilities available to me, or if I did, not with the full combo points; I was thinking like a dps instead of a tank (oh gods, trying to get me to move behind him for the breath, instead of running away out of range...)

But boy, it was a rush when I finally got him down.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:15 pm

It was super-targeted and extremely fun -- it proved to us the value of focusing in on a specific class and tailoring the content to their abilities. Given that the audience for these weapons consists of badass raiders, we didn’t hold back on the difficulty either, so these quests were great for people who wanted a real challenge.

Emphasis mine. This gives me GREAT hope. For a long time, they said that they would NOT do things like what they did for hunters and priests, and here's one of the main designers saying, "you know, this is pretty awesome to do".

I'd like to see similar challenge quests for all of the classes and roles - that scale with level to a certain extent so you can still go back and do last-expansion's-legendary and be challenged.

I really wish I had a max level rogue, for this very reason. It looks like fun, I could care less about the daggers.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:47 pm

Firas wrote:I don't know about you but the first set of daggers were a pain for me, I hardly play my rogue so when I went to kill the dragon for the final part of the first series I kept getting the crap kicked out of me. Everything I read it seemed more like a pvp fight than a pve encounter. The only way I ended up beating him was a couple other rogues showed up.

For someone who only plays a rogue about one a month or when new dungeons come out this was a pain.


It was challenging for people who do play rogues all the time. The way I heard it described was that you had to use every trick in the book.
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Re: "Overwhelmingly Positive" Feedback

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:01 pm

Kelaan wrote:I'd like to see similar challenge quests for all of the classes and roles - that scale with level to a certain extent so you can still go back and do last-expansion's-legendary and be challenged.


This is where I see the most hope for where the rogue legendary experience may lead: because let's face it, that was a class quest for raiding rogues.

Now make it so you don't have to have 24/9/4 other friends to start the quest, tone back the item reward to prevent people from getting all angry (but not so much that no one bothers or the reward you get never gets used), and make it a hard and rewarding questline that requires *you* to play well and use everything the devs gave you. Yeah, baby. :P
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