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Stam stacking making a comeback?

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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Treck » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:02 am

You should always use mastery food.
Using feast is like using green gems, they are cheap, they might not be the best, and they might get the work done, but you are not using 100% of your char, so why bother beeing block capped, getting like 95% halfassed would seem ok if thats the case.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Schroom » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:12 am

the feast argument is clear. however, how is using 2 green gems, worse than using one yellow and one blue gem?
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Era » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:21 am

Fairly sure he meant green gems as in green quality, and not rares/epic gems.
Last edited by Era on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Dantriges » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:21 am

He means the quality not the color.

Actually what´s the CTC+ you get from mastery versus feast?
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Schroom » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:45 am

ah ok, got it. He meant the quality. right now I even forgot there was sth like green quality gems. I think I didn't use them even once on the whole expansion :P

for how much CTC you win with mastery food:

it depends on your current level of dodge as diminishing Returns play out here. but for my toon in example, mastery food gives me 0.7731 more ctc than dodgefood/feast
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:14 am

Fulkzz wrote:Aside: Just a note on the Ultraxion chatter, using t13 ret legs and 4 piece t13 tanking I was able to get 8% hit, 26 exp and use 2 dps trinkets while remaing at the ctc cap with a stamina flask on. Using that you should be able to crack out some really high dps as long as a bear doesnt go and rip it off you with berserk :D

You'll get more DPS out of using 2T12 ret + 2T12 prot, actually. You can hit 8%/26 in that get-up while maintaining block cap by choosing the right pieces.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:23 am

Treck wrote:You should always use mastery food.
Using feast is like using green gems, they are cheap, they might not be the best, and they might get the work done, but you are not using 100% of your char, so why bother beeing block capped, getting like 95% halfassed would seem ok if thats the case.


By that logic, everyone should put epic gems in every slot, regardless of the cost. That makes sense at World #100+, perhaps. It doesn't make sense for most of the rest of the world. It's a tradeoff of about 1.4k health (~60 mastery worth of gems, or 90 stam). It's worth considering if you're pushing a boss that tests your EH, of course, but not something that's going to be critical for progression.

Hell, even I use feasts instead of mastery food most of the time, because I'm lazy. I generally only use mastery food if it's needed to maintain cap in a specific gear set, or on new progression bosses where EH is a serious concern.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:43 am

Really? I've found I had to switch to mastery food and use elixirs this tier just to maintain cap.

I used feasts and flasks when ctc cap was just a bit too far out of reach (stupidly, but anyway), but now since I can maintain cap I feel I have/need to. Although even with full epic gems in my gear, mastery food and elixirs, I'm STILL struggling to maintain it - and I always need the shaman totem buff and kings to hit the cap. (And often find myself switching to a different pair of bracers that's gemmed for pure mastery when I need to use the tol barad trinket.)

I'm actually surprised if tanks AREN'T in full epic gems by this point. Our gems are so cheap, and relatively easy to come by since no one else wants the green and blue (and yellows even) that people usually just throw them at me anyway.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:06 am

Yeah, but you're using lots of greens and blues rather than yellows. You could maintain cap by switching some blues to greens, or greens to yellows, and make up the (90 mastery - 90 dodge) worth of CTC that way, which would result in the ~1.4k hp trade-off Theck mentioned. But you'd know you were being sub-optimal when it's not that expensive or arduous to be optimal :D. You'd need to use a lot of yellows to be able to get away with flask over elixir though, but given that what we're working on at the moment benefits significantly from using prismatic elixir it's definitely worth using elixirs over flask anyway.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:13 am

I guess it's only expensive/time consuming to switch over to blues and greens if you haven't been doing so all along.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:17 am

I meant more the annoyance of having to remember to bring stacks of elixirs and one's own food buff puts a lot of people off from it, and it's definitely true that it's more work than just taking a flask and fish feast, but I think the flexibility one gains from balancing one's gear around elixirs and mastery food is worth it for anyone pushing content that their raid group's struggling with.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:22 am

Oh I know. But I guess it depends on the person. I actually like replenishing my elixirs and stuff so I don't find it bothersome. The only bothersome part is that you can't actually farm the lavascale catfish. Why there aren't pools for that is the biggest nuisance.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Treck » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:26 am

theckhd wrote:By that logic, everyone should put epic gems in every slot, regardless of the cost. That makes sense at World #100+, perhaps.

Yes indeed.
But mastery food is easier and cheaper than epicgems, but yes, if you dont go for mastery food, theres obviously little reason to get epicgems.

theckhd wrote:Hell, even I use feasts instead of mastery food most of the time, because I'm lazy. I generally only use mastery food if it's needed to maintain cap in a specific gear set, or on new progression bosses where EH is a serious concern.

Sure, not all situations justify min/maxing obviously, i would prolly not care about mastery food on multiple DS bosses during farm, but i happen to have a big supply i need to get rid of anyway, so use it for pretty much anything ^^
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby Treck » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:31 am

Also, i find it pretty easy to reach block cap tho.
Yes i use one mastery trinket, but cuz the effect is good, not coz i need the mastery.
I choose Stamina > mastery everywhere i can (except gloves so far as i would need a better headpiece first)
And have no problem reaching cap reliably.
Sure my gear is pretty high i guess but didnt really have trouble before either, i just gemmed with green epic gems rather than blue.
Altho it is a lot more annoying in 10man with a limited ammount of buffs.
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Re: Stam stacking making a comeback?

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:45 am

Treck wrote:Yes indeed.
But mastery food is easier and cheaper than epicgems, but yes, if you dont go for mastery food, theres obviously little reason to get epicgems.

Actually, on my server it's about the opposite. Blue/Green epic gems are 300-500 gold each, but each lavascale catfish is 20G. A stack of 20 is right on par with an epic gem. But low pop servers have screwy economies.

That said, I have the cash on hand to do it, so I don't really have an excuse to be lazy about it. Except laziness.

Nikachelle wrote:Really? I've found I had to switch to mastery food and use elixirs this tier just to maintain cap.

I'm not sure why, I can easily cap with feast/flask despite gemming heavily for stam. I don't think I have many blue slots that I can switch over to stamina - I'm actually at the point where the next gem upgrades I should make are skipping the 30 parry bonuses on legs/chest and going with three solid gems.

And I've been really lazy about epic gemming too. I've pretty much only put epic gems in things that are BiS (so heroic drops, or 397 items which have no higher-ilvl equivalent). This thread is making me feel extra bad about that given the cost of blue/green gems; I should probably just drop the 5k gold and go all out with epics, even in my remaining FL pieces.
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