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Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Archeth » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Probably gonna stick to my warlock unless they manage to make destro even more annoying than going from WotLK to Cata. Very happy with my prot warrior and holy priest alts too so I have one favourite role each - unless monk healing is truly great, I'll probably just make one for the novelty and because I already got one of each class otherwise.

Still thinking (hoping) they will get rid of the "no auto-attack" thing - sounds good on paper, but RSI doesn't.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:53 pm

Copied from Role thread, to avoid too much derailing there.

Klaudandus wrote:
theckhd wrote:Note that in the MoP implementation, our mana regen is fixed at 5% every 2 seconds. No mana return on blocking. Since the resource generation will be more consistent, there's a decent chance they'll be able to turn it into a real resource we care about. Provided they're going that route, of course.


That sounds really dangerous imo.


I have to agree - at least based on the current information. Based on CS-J-AS/Cons-repeat type rotation, it seems like the 5%/2 sec return rate will leave you at a net loss each cycle unless you have several seconds of actions that cost HoPo-only or are free in there.

I actually have trouble believing my napkin math(someone please say I have an error :P), because that seems to not make any sense unless they plan on having us have several seconds of doing non-mana consuming actions fairly often.
--- copy of napkin o' math:
11 % - CS (4.5 sec)
5% - Judgement (6 sec)
7% - AS (9 sec)
22% - Cons (9 sec)
1.5s GCD, assume .5 sec to hit the button so each action takes 2 seconds and thus can assume a mana replenish tick (-5, since I'm calculating mana lost) just before each subsequent action after the first... seems like that's probably being a bit too conservative though.

CS-J-AS-CS-J-Cons-repeat = 11 + (-5) + 5 + (-5) + 7 + (-5) + 11 + (-5) + 7 + (-5) + 22 + (-5) = 63 - 30 = 33% mana net loss at end of 1st full cycle. If you assume a single mana-free HoPo ability after the second CS (assume no GC proc), you add 5% mana to that, so 28% net loss. Without any other mana gains, it seems like we'd be running dry pretty quick. I am voting for something missing from the abilities, because even including the ~5%/5seconds my toon shows (which I assume is in addition to the 3%/sec from JoW and the 1%/block or dodge from sanctuary that we don't have in this iteration), I'm still coming out at a net loss each cycle.
Last edited by benebarba on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Phonic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:58 pm

It's going to be harsh, that's for sure.. but they will balance it out so that we're not starved, but at the same time we can't ignore it like we do now.

Also, I considered switch to a bear, but I just love my pally too much to ever make anything else my main.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:13 pm

benebarba wrote:Copied from Role thread, to avoid too much derailing there.

Klaudandus wrote:
theckhd wrote:Note that in the MoP implementation, our mana regen is fixed at 5% every 2 seconds. No mana return on blocking. Since the resource generation will be more consistent, there's a decent chance they'll be able to turn it into a real resource we care about. Provided they're going that route, of course.


That sounds really dangerous imo.


I have to agree - at least based on the current information. Based on CS-J-AS/Cons-repeat type rotation, it seems like the 5%/2 sec return rate will leave you at a net loss each cycle unless you have several seconds of actions that cost HoPo-only or are free in there.

I actually have trouble believing my napkin math(someone please say I have an error :P), because that seems to not make any sense unless they plan on having us have several seconds of doing non-mana consuming actions fairly often.
--- copy of napkin o' math:
11 % - CS (4.5 sec)
5% - Judgement (6 sec)
7% - AS (9 sec)
22% - Cons (9 sec)
1.5s GCD, assume .5 sec to hit the button so each action takes 2 seconds and thus can assume a mana replenish tick (-5, since I'm calculating mana lost) just before each subsequent action after the first... seems like that's probably being a bit too conservative though.

CS-J-AS-CS-J-Cons-repeat = 11 + (-5) + 5 + (-5) + 7 + (-5) + 11 + (-5) + 7 + (-5) + 22 + (-5) = 63 - 30 = 33% mana net loss at end of 1st full cycle. If you assume a single mana-free HoPo ability after the second CS (assume no GC proc), you add 5% mana to that, so 28% net loss. Without any other mana gains, it seems like we'd be running dry pretty quick. I am voting for something missing from the abilities, because even including the ~5%/5seconds my toon shows (which I assume is in addition to the 3%/sec from JoW and the 1%/block or dodge from sanctuary that we don't have in this iteration), I'm still coming out at a net loss each cycle.



Looks like I got our answer

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=41#814

Posted by Klaudandus
Can we get more info regarding Mana Regen for protection paladins? From what I read, it seems the only mana regen source comes from GbtL with a passive 5% mana regen every 2 secs -- and that's it.



There are some incorrect mana costs displayed in the talent calculator for some Protection and Retribution Paladins spells right now. For example, Consecration actually costs 7% of base mana, not 22%.*

They currently are designed such that they are mana positive while doing their damage and going through their tanking rotations, and stay near full mana the whole time. Mana should not be a consideration to their rotation, rather, it will act as a limit on how much off-healing and other utility spells they can cast.

*At the moment; subject to change.


That's twice Kaivax actually answers directly to my questions in that thread alone, kinda makes me happy =P
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:16 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Looks like I got our answer

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=41#814

Posted by Klaudandus
Can we get more info regarding Mana Regen for protection paladins? From what I read, it seems the only mana regen source comes from GbtL with a passive 5% mana regen every 2 secs -- and that's it.



There are some incorrect mana costs displayed in the talent calculator for some Protection and Retribution Paladins spells right now. For example, Consecration actually costs 7% of base mana, not 22%.*

They currently are designed such that they are mana positive while doing their damage and going through their tanking rotations, and stay near full mana the whole time. Mana should not be a consideration to their rotation, rather, it will act as a limit on how much off-healing and other utility spells they can cast.

*At the moment; subject to change.



OK, I really had a hard time trying to figure out what we'd be doing if we were mana-negative... so much so I assumed there was just something wrong in the abilities. Glad to hear I was right.

also: maybe I should visit the official forums occasionally :P
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:20 pm

benebarba wrote:also: maybe I should visit the official forums occasionally :P

*shudders at the thought*
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:10 pm

OMG great hunter nerf of the Pandas.. latest changes have 50% reduction of all hunter damaging shots.. I don't know what they are doing, but.. wow... with a GCD still in place, I can't imagine what they are planning.. I hope they aren't planning on hunters shooting 100% more shots.

Edit: Only thing I can think of is that they are adding the stat-stick weapon damage to the weapon damage of ranged weapons, thus necessitating the reduction of "weapon damage + xxxx" spells.

I smell much rebalancing... and quick nerfs and slow buffs.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:25 pm

from the big Q&A thread


Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:27 pm

halabar wrote:OMG great hunter nerf of the Pandas.. latest changes have 50% reduction of all hunter damaging shots.. I don't know what they are doing, but.. wow... with a GCD still in place, I can't imagine what they are planning.. I hope they aren't planning on hunters shooting 100% more shots.

Edit: Only thing I can think of is that they are adding the stat-stick weapon damage to the weapon damage of ranged weapons, thus necessitating the reduction of "weapon damage + xxxx" spells.

I smell much rebalancing... and quick nerfs and slow buffs.

There was a clarification post that all percent-of-weapon-damage abilities are having that percentage reduced, and base weapon damage increased to compensate. The idea being to stop those abilities being too powerful at lower levels.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:16 pm

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=46#904
BTW, Any word on the currently missing Righteous Defense? Are all tanks across the board losing a taunt?



We’re currently trying a design where no tanks have AE taunts, other than Mocking Banner (which we intend to be used more as a tool to redirect streams of adds to you).


That's 3 questions I get answered =D

Don't like the answer that much tho -- what is Mocking Banner? Also, not having a 2nd taunt scares me due to how hectic pugs can be >=/
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:22 pm

Flex wrote:from the big Q&A thread


Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


So... hunters, and similar classes, will be even more screwed by bad drops, and scale poorly if they put weapons only on end bosses as with DW.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Darielle » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:34 pm

That's 3 questions I get answered =D

Don't like the answer that much tho -- what is Mocking Banner? Also, not having a 2nd taunt scares me due to how hectic pugs can be >=/


War Banner is the level 87 Warrior ability. It can be one of three abilities - one of which is Mocking Banner. AFAIK 2 min cooldown. Lasts 30 seconds, and forces all enemies within 15 yards in a zone towards the Warrior.

Using it up means that you miss out on Demo Banner, which reduces damage done by all enemies within 30 yards of the banner by 10% for 15 seconds or Skull Banner, which increases the crit chance of all party/raid members by 30% for 15 seconds.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:10 pm

I want something cool like that, but for paladins!

Still, not liking losing our aoe taunts -- ae taunts are godsend when doing random heroics when trying to cap your vp >=(
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:55 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I want something cool like that, but for paladins!

Still, not liking losing our aoe taunts -- ae taunts are godsend when doing random heroics when trying to cap your vp >=(

HoP is the secondary taunt :)

Also, we are getting a targetable AoE from talents (Light's Hammer) which should be handy for picking up streaming adds.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Extermi » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:43 am

Yes I am definitely not concerned about our ability to handle adds at the moment. Getting back Consecration in the cycle at low mana cost (YAAAAIIII, the reason I got into the holy tree back in classic), WoG (or FoL) heal aggro with RF if timed well (any 1 remembering healing warlocks back in SSC ??), and, if it really comes to this, spec into holy prism or lights hammer. It really looks like we will keep our strength here.

The only downside I have found so far is losing our raidbubble, while e.g. warriors have rallying cry. I actually liked to have a raid wide CD for the tough damage phases.

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