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[10H] Ultraxion

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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby ckernan2 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:22 am

Hi guys,

I've been stalking these boards and am finally going to make contributions.

For this fight, we used the following composition:

Prot Warr, Prot Paladin
Demo Lock (me), Ele Shaman, Combat Rogue, Shadow Priest, Fire Mage, UH DK
Holy Paladin, Resto Druid

We used the strategy of counting down from 5 at the pull. At 3, healers used Heroic Will to phase out; at 2, DPS used a potion; at 1, our shaman used Bloodlust; and at 0, we pulled the boss.

Our Hour of Twilight rotation was as follows:

Hours 1/4/7: Prot War/Rogue
Hours 2/5: Demo Lock/Prot Paladin
Hours 3/6: Spriest/Fire Mage

The reason Demo locks are able to absorb an Hour of Twilight is with a Hand of Sacrifice from the Holy Paladin leaving the realm. With Shadow Ward, Soul Link, and using Death Coil immediately after being hit, I was able to be at 60k life after the hour (had 170.1k raid buffed). I haven't seen anyone using a warlock to absorb an Hour, but they can be skillfully used.

Our DPS was just enough to kill the boss around the 5:45 mark. Cooldown usage:

Between HoT 6 and 7: Tranquility, Health Stones, any personal CDs, Bloodlust for healers
Between HoT 7 and 8: Prot War came out of absorbing Hour of Twilight with his 4pc Shield Wall for 20% dmg reduction to raid...after that expired, he used Rallying Cry coupled with Prot Paladin's Guardian. When cooldowns were used improperly, we died 5 seconds after the 7th Hour. When they were used properly, we ended the fight at full health and the healers going "it's over already? sweet."

Attached are the logs so you can see one of the lower ended dps requirements for this fight (we are not that awesome): http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vg27czlr ... 87&e=14934

With the incoming 5% nerf, anyone who is just short should be able to pull this off. Hope I've helped someone out! Happy grinding and progressing!
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Ocin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:57 am

Trying this tonight and this is what I have for a rotation. I'm wondering if I'm over-complicating the rotation though:

1st HoT: Tankadin1 (Bubble)/ DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
2nd HoT: Tankadin2 (Bubble) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
3rd HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
4th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
5th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
6th HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
7th HoT: Tankadin1 (AD+Divine Protection) / Holy Pally (Bubble)
8th HoT: Tankadin2 (AD+Divine Protection) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)

Prot raid wall up for each HoT
Raid CDs inbetween 6th and 7th HoTs
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:07 am

I thought Last Stand was a 3 min CD, so perhaps you could alternate the Warr and Holy Pally.

I also assume you mean you are using DivGaurd between Hours rather than during.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:14 am

GoAK is a 1 min 30 CD on this fight, and that alone is enough for a tank to survive hour of twilight. AD and DP can be used to smooth out the melee damage the rest of the time. If you are going to use bubble you should use it on the later ones anyway due to the higher raid damage going out. Assuming the cat's going bear for when the tank buff goes out their own survival instincts will be up for each hour of twilight (and assuming they have 4 piece you want them giving you 40 seconds of extra healing near the end of the fight).
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby ckernan2 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:15 am

Ocin wrote:Trying this tonight and this is what I have for a rotation. I'm wondering if I'm over-complicating the rotation though:

1st HoT: Tankadin1 (Bubble)/ DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
2nd HoT: Tankadin2 (Bubble) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
3rd HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
4th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
5th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
6th HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
7th HoT: Tankadin1 (AD+Divine Protection) / Holy Pally (Bubble)
8th HoT: Tankadin2 (AD+Divine Protection) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)

Prot raid wall up for each HoT
Raid CDs inbetween 6th and 7th HoTs



I wouldn't say you are overcomplicating anything...as long as everyone knows their assignment. However, I noticed you are using two prot pallies...so hand of sacrifice is good, but on the 4th and 7th HoT, you are using GoAK on the 4th and AD on the 7th...since your tank has 2 hours between each of his, he should be using DP, AD, and GoAK every time since their CD is reduced to half (GoAK = 90 sec, AD = 90 sec, AD = 30 sec). There's absolutely no reason to need to bubble being able to use every CD for that. Also, since you are using two paladin tanks, if they both have their 4 set, you should have a near permanent 20% damage reduction, especially at the end with their Divine Guardian spells.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:42 am

Rallying cry is 3 minutes yes. Divine Guardian lasts 12 seconds, so you can use it just before hour of twilight hits for the other person if it's required for them to survive, and still cover a few ticks of raidwide damage as well.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Ocin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:59 am

ckernan2 wrote:I wouldn't say you are overcomplicating anything...as long as everyone knows their assignment. However, I noticed you are using two prot pallies...so hand of sacrifice is good, but on the 4th and 7th HoT, you are using GoAK on the 4th and AD on the 7th...since your tank has 2 hours between each of his, he should be using DP, AD, and GoAK every time since their CD is reduced to half (GoAK = 90 sec, AD = 90 sec, AD = 30 sec). There's absolutely no reason to need to bubble being able to use every CD for that. Also, since you are using two paladin tanks, if they both have their 4 set, you should have a near permanent 20% damage reduction, especially at the end with their Divine Guardian spells.


So, this would make more sense I'm hoping:

1st HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand or Shield Wall+Hand of Sacrifice)
2nd HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
3rd HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
4th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Holy Pally (Bubble)
5th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
6th HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
7th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
8th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)

Both tankadins have their 4pcs.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Brosterr » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am

Ocin wrote:
ckernan2 wrote:
1st HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand or Shield Wall+Hand of Sacrifice)
2nd HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
3rd HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
4th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Holy Pally (Bubble)
5th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
6th HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
7th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
8th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)

Both tankadins have their 4pcs.


Dont have them use all 3 cd's, that is way overkill. Have them glyph DP and use GoAK and DProt and they will be fine (they can use DProt in between hours as well). I know for a fact the warrior can survive using shield wall alone (only once though). I have a hard time believing this is all you have to chose from though. You dont have a holy pally, mage, rogue or dk in your group? As i said, i find that very hard to believe. The classes you should try to avoid using the most are druids and warriors imo (not sure about locks, just read in this thread they can survive alone), and you have each taking 2. If it is all you have just change the fact that you are having your tanks waste a cd for hour and you should be fine.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Ocin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:20 pm

Brosterr wrote:
Ocin wrote:
ckernan2 wrote:
1st HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand or Shield Wall+Hand of Sacrifice)
2nd HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
3rd HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
4th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Holy Pally (Bubble)
5th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)
6th HoT: SP (Dispersion un-glyphed) / Hunter (Deterrence)
7th HoT: Tankadin1 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / DPS Warrior (Last Stand+Hand of Sacrifice)
8th HoT: Tankadin2 (GoAK+Divine Protection+AD) / Kitty (Barkskin+Hand of Sacrifice)

Both tankadins have their 4pcs.


Dont have them use all 3 cd's, that is way overkill. Have them glyph DP and use GoAK and DProt and they will be fine (they can use DProt in between hours as well). I know for a fact the warrior can survive using shield wall alone (only once though). I have a hard time believing this is all you have to chose from though. You dont have a holy pally, mage, rogue or dk in your group? As i said, i find that very hard to believe. The classes you should try to avoid using the most are druids and warriors imo (not sure about locks, just read in this thread they can survive alone), and you have each taking 2. If it is all you have just change the fact that you are having your tanks waste a cd for hour and you should be fine.


Shouldn't Shield wall be up again later on? It's on a 3 minute CD I thought.

Not listed above and depending on who is available: Destro/Demo Lock and Enhancement Shammy, Resto Druid and a second Resto Druid going Kitty
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Belloc » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:04 pm

Rhiannon wrote:Rallying cry is 3 minutes yes. Divine Guardian lasts 12 seconds, so you can use it just before hour of twilight hits for the other person if it's required for them to survive, and still cover a few ticks of raidwide damage as well.

With your current rotation, Tankadins 1 and 2 will be expected to use Divine Guardian on their own second HoT, reducing its effectiveness (since Divine Guardian does not affect the casting paladin). If you're fine with that, no problem... but I thought it might be relevant to mention :D

In other words:
Code: Select all
1st HoT: Tankadin1   DS2
2nd HoT: Tankadin2   DS1
3rd HoT: SP          DS2
4th HoT: Tankadin1   DS1
5th HoT: Tankadin2   DS2
6th HoT: SP          DS1
7th HoT: Tankadin1   DS2
8th HoT: Tankadin2   DS1
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Schroom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:13 am

Hi, with my guild we are going to start progressing this Boss this tuesday. So how does the 5% nerf affect any previously posted tactics. what are the new required raid DPS and the required DPS for each one.

Me as a protpally tank, I did about 16.5 and 18k on this Boss on normal mode, as I am.

Now I thought, as being Expertise capped already and being at about 3% Hit. To use a strength flask and strength Food for this fight. As well as the "Essence of the Eternal Flame" trinket and strength pots to highten my Tank DPS, without really having to regem to pure mastery sockets, and lose more stamina, and reforge avoidance to hit, in order to get hitcapped.

(well if even with the stamina stuff the dps is to low I guess I don't have much choice but I would rather avoid it.)

another question. Every 3rd HoT there won't be a tank in the twilight zone, now how do you avoid having one of the DPS taking the risk of getting hit by a random melee swing after the LoH (as we saw random melee hits on normal mode while testing it with leaving 2 DPS in the TZ.)
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:43 am

If you're seeing melee swings on the dps you're either phasing too early, tank coming back from fading light isn't taunting, or you're bugged. I've not ever seen that happen.
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Schroom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:06 am

mh taunting to late can't be the issue as taunting to early doesn't get you a GCD I always spam taunt as soon as I'm about to come back. same does my mate.

phasing to early also seems quite impossible... because (on normal mode where we tested) the cast is so long that you would reappear before HoT if phased to early.

by the way, same thing happened sometimes when the tank phased to survive the debuff, even tho the second tank was in position 2 in the aggro table. (have a quite well-thought-out taunting tactic to assure that a tank is on top at any given time)

can't it be something like the same thing seen in the Ragnaros encounter where the boss was giving out random melee hits to DPS when the tank was further away from the boss as the DPS?

I'll check my logs tho when I get the time, I'll probably see the explanation for this there if it isn't normal behavior.

now what about my first question concerning tank dps? :)
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Schroom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:24 am

ok, follow up on the "random melee swings" thing

I just checked a log from last week, where first our feral cat druid died on a random melee swing and later our Druid healer suffered the same faith (after which we called it a wipe)

here are the logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-85pqdp6a1egpw6w0/xe/?s=4841&e=5091&x=sourceName+%3D+%22Ultraxion%22+and+fulltype%3D101+

i noticed that at the same moment that a person got hit, the Boss was casting "Zwielichtverschiebung" which in English is the "Twilight Shift".

this can be seen here: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-85pqdp6a1egpw6w0/xe/?s=4841&e=5091&x=sourceName+%3D+%22Ultraxion%22

could this be latency related or sth? I can't explain it, or maybe someone here sees something more ;-)

in fact stuff like this happened quite often the past weeks on Normal mode, that's why for our HM setup, we even thought about having our cat switch to Bear every 3 HoT in HM ant taunt the Boss, in order to minimize the chance of someone getting oneshot by the Boss. (but it would mean a dps loss for the class that is the worst for that Boss to start with.)

(or maybe Ultraxion just doesn't like Druids?)
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Re: [10H] Ultraxion

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:16 am

Long search string.

Firstly logs on Ultraxion are very buggy due to the phasing. Not sure who the logger is, but you're not getting the full picture. I can't see anything that directly explains why the boss suddenly ignores you, but you did do something a bit weird in this case. Looking at between the first and second hour of twilight:

[19:51:19.718] Ultraxion begins to cast Stunde des Zwielichts first hour of twilight
[19:51:24.953] Ultraxion Stunde des Zwielichts Schroom 108000
[19:51:28.131] Ultraxion hits Schroom 9139 (A: 5709, B: 15455)
[19:51:32.940] Ultraxion hits Schroom 10247 (A: 5423, B: 16310)
[19:51:37.328] Mýstos casts Dunkler Befehl on Ultraxion DK taunts Ultraxion before fading light goes out
[19:51:37.537] Ultraxion afflicted by Dunkler Befehl from Mýstos
[19:51:39.362] Mýstos casts Todesgriff on Ultraxion DK death grips Ultraxion for some reason
[19:51:39.362] Mýstos Todesgriff Ultraxion Immune
[19:51:39.404] Ultraxion afflicted by Todesgriff from Mýstos
[19:51:39.967] Mýstos afflicted by Schwindendes Licht from Ultraxion fading light on DK
[19:51:39.967] Mathon afflicted by Schwindendes Licht from Ultraxion
[19:51:40.174] Ultraxion hits Mýstos 66351
[19:51:40.437] Mýstos's Dunkler Befehl fades from Ultraxion
[19:51:42.579] Mýstos's Todesgriff fades from Ultraxion
[19:51:42.585] Ultraxion hits Mýstos 63816
[19:51:45.006] Ultraxion hits Mýstos Dodge
[19:51:47.438] Ultraxion hits Meôew 99540 (O: 53641) feral dies
[19:51:47.973] Ultraxion afflicted by Dunkler Befehl from Mýstos DK taunts again
[19:51:50.937] Mýstos's Dunkler Befehl fades from Ultraxion
[19:51:55.197] Mýstos afflicted by Schwindendes Licht from Ultraxion DK gets fading light again
[19:51:55.197] Delrach afflicted by Schwindendes Licht from Ultraxion
[19:51:56.095] Mýstos casts Dunkler Befehl on Ultraxion DK taunts yet again?
[19:51:56.292] Ultraxion afflicted by Dunkler Befehl from Mýstos
[19:51:59.067] Delrach afflicted by Heldenhafte Willensstärke from Delrach
[19:51:59.067] Delrach casts Heldenhafte Willensstärke
[19:51:59.347] Mýstos's Dunkler Befehl fades from Ultraxion
[19:51:59.347] Ultraxion hits Mýstos 50078 (A: 5145)
[19:52:01.884] Ultraxion hits Mýstos 59038
[19:52:04.227] Ultraxion hits Schroom 42566 (B: 44304)
[19:52:04.287] Ultraxion afflicted by Dunkler Befehl from Mýstos
[19:52:05.504] Ultraxion begins to cast Stunde des Zwielichts

So the DK got fading light first, presumably ported out with heroic will (which isn't shown in the log, but he must have or he'd have died) and that's when the druid died. You didn't actually taunt when the DK got the debuff (and you weren't out of phase as all your other casts in that timeframe show up), though you shouldn't have needed to as you would have been second on threat. However I'd suggest taunting after the other tank has got fading light anyway, as that's what I've always done and never had this issue. It could also be the unnecessary additional taunts from the DK screwing things up.
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