U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:44 am

Brekkie wrote:
Arnock wrote:I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.


Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

You're absolutely right. The way we consume that sort of media is amazingly outdated. There are all sorts of reasons, but we really need someone to step up and re-design this system. Apple was working on it, and are one of the few corporations that have the ability. Undoubtedly it would be a more closed solution than I would like, it would at least be progress that would eventually lead to open solutions.

Either way, the industry does have problems that contribute to the proliferation of piracy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am

I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:02 pm

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

It's a bit more complicated than that. For instance they've had huge issues with digital/streaming formats because of the way actors' salaries and royalties are structured. That's why when you used to listen to live sports events over streaming media, it would black out the commercials. Most of that has been dealt with, but the point is that there is just a whole lot of restructuring to be dealt with.

There are also a lot of entanglements already in place with hard copy media that can't just be stopped, and hard copy media can't just go away, not everyone has or wants broadband. There are a ton of moving parts, but I think these studios will make what they want to make either way, there's no reason for them to suddenly take in less over format issues. They just adjust price points, and the level of competition won't dramatically rise so as long as they can keep veiwers, they will be fine.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby degre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:56 am

Brekkie wrote:Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

I'm a heavy torrent user, but is mostly due to the fact that I don't even own a TV and I watch everything on my machine, it gives the advantage that whenever I want I can turn on my machine, load a site, watch what I want. I love BBC because everything they show on TV they also show on their BBC iPlayer, in high definition. Most of the American stuff on the other hand I get it off torrent for the simple reason that I have no other way of watching it. If they sorted out some streaming site (at an honest price) to let me watch my favourite series online, I would be happy to pay.

And for the record, I was actually forced to crack a couple of original games due bad DRM as the original disc was not allowing me to run it. I am confident that a lot of people here had similar issue with faulty DRM.

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

Funny.

Just a few weeks ago I wanted to look into getting some digital music, I live in a small place and getting more junk in is not the best idea, so I wanted to avoid getting more hard copies; I looked into a few digital media like iTunes, Apple could burn in hell for all I care, I ended up getting my CDs off Amazon as it costs me less to order a copy there and have it shipped. If I want to save space I'll rip my own CD and throw it away, but I'm not spending a good 20/30% more to get a bare digital copy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:51 am

HBO Go is odd, it is almost perfect in what a modern entertainment company should deliver except for that "you must subscribe via a cable outlet" thing. Cable companies currently hold a lot of sway in this market unfortunately.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:20 pm

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:10 pm

Firas wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.


This is actually a perfect example of why bills like SOPA and PIPA are quite pointless and not needed. The current system works now to shutdown sites that are deemed to be profiting off of illegal content distribution. Unfortunately the MPAA and RIAA want a nuke it from orbit then take it to court solution.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Nothan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:57 pm

Brekkie wrote:Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.


I couldn't agree more, however I am just opposite of you. I would like to watch foreign TV shows, but there is absolutely no way to do this that I know of legally, so I just have to wait and pray it's released on DVD after it airs locally.

There is only one option, which is adding a premium channel to our cable. That's fine, but the prime time content is lagging behind by 1-2 years when compared to the content available in HK locally. I have no issue paying for the content, but there's no way to get to it currently.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fivelives » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:09 am

I don't pirate anything. Hell, I don't even know how to pirate anything. I subscribe to Netflix and Hulu+, along with HBO Go and ESPN (through Verizon). I have Rhapsody and all of my mp3s were either purchased through iTunes or ripped from CDs that I actually own.

I like to believe that I'm not in the minority. As cynical and misanthropic as I am, I still believe that most people do things legally simply because it is the path of least resistance.

But bills like this started a long, long time ago and they keep coming around whenever the media conglomerates think they can drum up enough government support and rely on "user apathy" to pass the bills. What is amusing and horrifying in equal measure is that the same people who rely on us to make their VCR, DVD or Blu-Ray players stop blinking 12:00 on the face are the people who have the authority, again granted by us, to pass these laws. It all kind of boils down to media giants wanting to control the entire pie. They'll give us a slice of it, sure - but only when and where they say we can have it.

What I'm most afraid of, is that if any bills like this pass, is how it'll impact our educational system. We all love youtube and wikipedia, tvtropes, etc... But what about sites like JSTOR, that regularly hosts copyrighted published material for educational use? How about Google Books? I can't imagine struggling magazine publications like National Geographic refraining from absolutely LEAPING on the opportunity to force people to buy their magazines rather than download specific articles for free off the internet.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 am

While I was deployed, I bought a lot of "Haji" copies of movies. This was sort of like renting them (as any that I really liked, I bought when I got home or had my family send to me.) Also, if I was able to use Hulu, HBO Go, etc... I would happily pay to do so. However, since none of those services are offered outside the US (I can't even get Netflix on my PS3) then I have to resort to other means. Generally, I'll wait til it hits DVD and buy it, but sometimes I can be impatient, and really want to watch something (specfically TV shows) when they're aired, not 6 months after the season ends. That's usually when I start using less than legal means.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Arnock » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:32 am

I used to torrent a lot of currently airing T.V. shows, with the justification that the networks weren't directly getting any profit from me viewing the shows on T.V. However, I've recently gotten an arbitron meter (sort of like a nielson box that you wear like a pager) So I've subscribed to hulu plus.

Unfortunately though, hulu's player seems to have been breaking a LOT lately, and it's getting frustrating enough that I might have to go back to pirating my shows, I just need to know whether the signal that's read by my meter is still in shows that have been recorded and uploaded to torrent trackers.


My music, on the other hand, is all bought on itunes, amazon, or ripped from physical CD's bought directly from the artist(s) where possible.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fetzie » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:38 am

Same here Skye. IF there was an option to pay CBS/Fox/HBO/PBS to legally stream their series, or if I could use Netflix and pay with Paypal, I would gladly pay the 20 bucks a month or whatever. But I can't. This is why people pirate tv series. Because they can't watch them any other way. I could wait 3 years for Sat.1, RTL or ProSieben to pick up the new series of NCIS or How I met your mother, but then they go and dub it into german. And jokes don't translate.

I do not pirate music.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:11 am

Arnock wrote:Unfortunately though, hulu's player seems to have been breaking a LOT lately

Yes, it has. That's been really irritating.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:15 am

Wow, I was kind of tentative about posting my story because I totally expected people to jump all over me and be like HOW COULD YOU PIRATE YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PERSON AND STEALING EVIL BAD RABBLE RABBLE
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Treck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:49 am

I cant remember last time i actually bought something instead of downloading it.
Trust me, if i had the money to, i would.
I dont even pay for my own wow subscription, as i "buy" gametime for gold.
Not to mention that while id really like to put my support to some awesome games that ive really liked, and some movies i really enjoy aswell, i wouldnt even have seen or played one tenth of them if i would have had to buy them.
And thats a huge part people are missing when they just go "omgomg pirating is bad must be punnished", the fact that 90% of the people who pirate stuff wouldnt have seen the movie anyway untill it was on TV for free or whatever anyway, sure "big" movies lose more with pirating, but honestly, can i cant say i feel bad about pirating movies that bring in multi million figures on its opening night.
Smaller companies get shitloads of prmotion when people download it free, and lots more people get to see their content.

I pay for my music, as its 100times easier to deal with new music etc with spotify (that im currently using) compared to before when downloading and then having to move around your music from one computer to another.
Same for Steam, ive payed for a few games on steam cuz they simply make my life easier with their services.
And ofc online subscription is hard to walk around, but then they made Diablo 3 free, so np :P

Pirating might be free, but its tons less work to actually buy the shit, especially downloadable services like Steam making everyones lives much easier.
If you get 10euro an hour from work, id gladly work 3-4 hours instead and buy a game i want than to download it and have to mess around with it, but i also wanna know its a game i WANT to have, and since all games doesnt do "demo's" anymore, its hard to know if its something you wanna play or not.
Play it, and see if you enjoy it, then buy it if you wanna support the product, if you dont enjoy it, they did a shitty job at giving you a good product and shouldnt get the money anyway.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:01 pm

theckhd wrote:
Arnock wrote:Unfortunately though, hulu's player seems to have been breaking a LOT lately

Yes, it has. That's been really irritating.


I Hulu on my iPad 2 mirroring the screen to my Apple TV.

Apparently the Hulu app supports HDMI out but not AirPlay directly.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Hey Brekkie,

HOW COULD YOU PIRATE YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PERSON AND STEALING EVIL BAD RABBLE RABBLE
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Arnock » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:55 pm

Although not directly related to sopa/pipa, in a few days, jailbreaking a phone could become illegal again.


http://gizmodo.com/5879180/jailbreaking ... n-fight-it
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:54 pm

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:11 pm

Treck, I'm thoroughly confused by your post. It starts with...

Treck wrote:I cant remember last time i actually bought something instead of downloading it.
Trust me, if i had the money to, i would.
I dont even pay for my own wow subscription, as i "buy" gametime for gold.
Not to mention that while id really like to put my support to some awesome games that ive really liked, and some movies i really enjoy aswell, i wouldnt even have seen or played one tenth of them if i would have had to buy them.
And thats a huge part people are missing when they just go "omgomg pirating is bad must be punnished", the fact that 90% of the people who pirate stuff wouldnt have seen the movie anyway untill it was on TV for free or whatever anyway, sure "big" movies lose more with pirating, but honestly, can i cant say i feel bad about pirating movies that bring in multi million figures on its opening night.
Smaller companies get shitloads of prmotion when people download it free, and lots more people get to see their content.
To this I say boo fucking who. I realize we're dealing with shades of gray, but not being able to afford something just doesn't really qualify as a reason to pirate it. Particularly given the amount of time you talk about playing just WoW (never mind all this other stuff) and my initial reaction is to get a freaking job, and stop with all that justification nonsense. It's one thing to be willing, able, and even attempt to pay, but no one will take your money, but just saying "well I can't afford that so I'll pirate it", to me is totally different and not cool.

But then you say...

Treck wrote:Pirating might be free, but its tons less work to actually buy the shit, especially downloadable services like Steam making everyones lives much easier.
If you get 10euro an hour from work, id gladly work 3-4 hours instead and buy a game i want than to download it and have to mess around with it, but i also wanna know its a game i WANT to have, and since all games doesnt do "demo's" anymore, its hard to know if its something you wanna play or not.
Play it, and see if you enjoy it, then buy it if you wanna support the product, if you dont enjoy it, they did a shitty job at giving you a good product and shouldnt get the money anyway.
Well OK, if you are talking about working a few hours to pay for a game you tried and liked or stop playing it if it sucks, that's fine, but it totally doesn't jive with the first part, thus my confusion.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:49 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.infowars.com/sopa-and-pipa-fully-alive-and-a-new-bill-joins-them/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/248525/s ... n_act.html

OPEN act could allow SOPA/PIPA to sneak into congress

I am saddened to learn that a Republican from Texas is the one pushing the hardest to try and get these things through... I've been gradually leaning away from the Republican party anyway, as the years go by, but this doesn't help their case any.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Treck » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:48 am

Fridmarr wrote:To this I say boo fucking who. I realize we're dealing with shades of gray, but not being able to afford something just doesn't really qualify as a reason to pirate it. Particularly given the amount of time you talk about playing just WoW (never mind all this other stuff) and my initial reaction is to get a freaking job, and stop with all that justification nonsense. It's one thing to be willing, able, and even attempt to pay, but no one will take your money, but just saying "well I can't afford that so I'll pirate it", to me is totally different and not cool.

I might have been a bit unclear, its not that i have no money at all and cant afford anything thus i pirate.
Its more that i dont have infinite money to spend on any crappy game i likely wont end up spending much time on anyway.

How much do i really talk about the time i spend in wow?
During progress yes, these days tho i raid 4 hours a week, and sit afk in wow when im at my computer like if it was msn/skype, i barely "play" wow anymore except that.
And i do have a job (I dont know how many times ive mentioned that i could barely even attend dragonsoul progress cuz of it).
I spend 11hours a day attending work cuz i have to travel and shit, still doesnt mean im willing to put out money for a game i only might enjoy, and if i do enjoy it I do support it.
Movies is a whole other story, and series are just hard to actually watch legitimately.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Passionario » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:32 am

degre wrote:I love BBC because everything they show on TV they also show on their BBC iPlayer, in high definition.


Not available outside UK, unfortunately.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fivelives » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:04 am

Passionario wrote:
degre wrote:I love BBC because everything they show on TV they also show on their BBC iPlayer, in high definition.


Not available outside UK, unfortunately.


I can't help but wonder how much piracy would decrease if they'd just get rid of the stupid restrictions and gave access to everyone, rather than restricting it by country.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:07 am

It'd be nice to see, but as far as the BBC is concerned you're not likely to see it offering the iPlayer outside the UK unless they stop funding it through TV licence fees.

The other, ad-funded, channels could probably pull it off, though, if there was an overhaul of how international rights to TV shows are handled.
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