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U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:58 am

I'm sure they will try again. It's not like attempting to curb stealing is a bad thing, just because it happens online. You just have to have a way to do it without screwing everyone else in the process.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Arnock » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:48 pm

I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:56 pm

That would make far too much sense...
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm

That works for currently ad supported content, ie. shows that are already available on cable that which most stations already supply for freemium on their site and sites like hulu.

However, that's a much harder model for things like software, movies, DVD (equivalents) etc.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:14 am

Arnock wrote:I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.


Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:44 am

Brekkie wrote:
Arnock wrote:I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.


Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

You're absolutely right. The way we consume that sort of media is amazingly outdated. There are all sorts of reasons, but we really need someone to step up and re-design this system. Apple was working on it, and are one of the few corporations that have the ability. Undoubtedly it would be a more closed solution than I would like, it would at least be progress that would eventually lead to open solutions.

Either way, the industry does have problems that contribute to the proliferation of piracy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am

I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:02 pm

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

It's a bit more complicated than that. For instance they've had huge issues with digital/streaming formats because of the way actors' salaries and royalties are structured. That's why when you used to listen to live sports events over streaming media, it would black out the commercials. Most of that has been dealt with, but the point is that there is just a whole lot of restructuring to be dealt with.

There are also a lot of entanglements already in place with hard copy media that can't just be stopped, and hard copy media can't just go away, not everyone has or wants broadband. There are a ton of moving parts, but I think these studios will make what they want to make either way, there's no reason for them to suddenly take in less over format issues. They just adjust price points, and the level of competition won't dramatically rise so as long as they can keep veiwers, they will be fine.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby degre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:56 am

Brekkie wrote:Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

I'm a heavy torrent user, but is mostly due to the fact that I don't even own a TV and I watch everything on my machine, it gives the advantage that whenever I want I can turn on my machine, load a site, watch what I want. I love BBC because everything they show on TV they also show on their BBC iPlayer, in high definition. Most of the American stuff on the other hand I get it off torrent for the simple reason that I have no other way of watching it. If they sorted out some streaming site (at an honest price) to let me watch my favourite series online, I would be happy to pay.

And for the record, I was actually forced to crack a couple of original games due bad DRM as the original disc was not allowing me to run it. I am confident that a lot of people here had similar issue with faulty DRM.

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

Funny.

Just a few weeks ago I wanted to look into getting some digital music, I live in a small place and getting more junk in is not the best idea, so I wanted to avoid getting more hard copies; I looked into a few digital media like iTunes, Apple could burn in hell for all I care, I ended up getting my CDs off Amazon as it costs me less to order a copy there and have it shipped. If I want to save space I'll rip my own CD and throw it away, but I'm not spending a good 20/30% more to get a bare digital copy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:51 am

HBO Go is odd, it is almost perfect in what a modern entertainment company should deliver except for that "you must subscribe via a cable outlet" thing. Cable companies currently hold a lot of sway in this market unfortunately.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:20 pm

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:10 pm

Firas wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.


This is actually a perfect example of why bills like SOPA and PIPA are quite pointless and not needed. The current system works now to shutdown sites that are deemed to be profiting off of illegal content distribution. Unfortunately the MPAA and RIAA want a nuke it from orbit then take it to court solution.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Nothan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:57 pm

Brekkie wrote:Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.


I couldn't agree more, however I am just opposite of you. I would like to watch foreign TV shows, but there is absolutely no way to do this that I know of legally, so I just have to wait and pray it's released on DVD after it airs locally.

There is only one option, which is adding a premium channel to our cable. That's fine, but the prime time content is lagging behind by 1-2 years when compared to the content available in HK locally. I have no issue paying for the content, but there's no way to get to it currently.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fivelives » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:09 am

I don't pirate anything. Hell, I don't even know how to pirate anything. I subscribe to Netflix and Hulu+, along with HBO Go and ESPN (through Verizon). I have Rhapsody and all of my mp3s were either purchased through iTunes or ripped from CDs that I actually own.

I like to believe that I'm not in the minority. As cynical and misanthropic as I am, I still believe that most people do things legally simply because it is the path of least resistance.

But bills like this started a long, long time ago and they keep coming around whenever the media conglomerates think they can drum up enough government support and rely on "user apathy" to pass the bills. What is amusing and horrifying in equal measure is that the same people who rely on us to make their VCR, DVD or Blu-Ray players stop blinking 12:00 on the face are the people who have the authority, again granted by us, to pass these laws. It all kind of boils down to media giants wanting to control the entire pie. They'll give us a slice of it, sure - but only when and where they say we can have it.

What I'm most afraid of, is that if any bills like this pass, is how it'll impact our educational system. We all love youtube and wikipedia, tvtropes, etc... But what about sites like JSTOR, that regularly hosts copyrighted published material for educational use? How about Google Books? I can't imagine struggling magazine publications like National Geographic refraining from absolutely LEAPING on the opportunity to force people to buy their magazines rather than download specific articles for free off the internet.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 am

While I was deployed, I bought a lot of "Haji" copies of movies. This was sort of like renting them (as any that I really liked, I bought when I got home or had my family send to me.) Also, if I was able to use Hulu, HBO Go, etc... I would happily pay to do so. However, since none of those services are offered outside the US (I can't even get Netflix on my PS3) then I have to resort to other means. Generally, I'll wait til it hits DVD and buy it, but sometimes I can be impatient, and really want to watch something (specfically TV shows) when they're aired, not 6 months after the season ends. That's usually when I start using less than legal means.
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