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[10H] Madness of deathwing

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[10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Cema » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:52 am

Because there was nothing about it here and the more you know ...

Random informations inc for the few who wonder


1) Hand of Protection / Bubble / Ardent Defender'cheat death -> don't work on impale in heroic mode. Don't even waste time on this

2) Tentacles hit for 100k on tanks and Impale hits for 800k before armor. I highly recommend 200k HP unbuff and block cap (so you only take 70K on hits). With 200k HP unbuff I had 3K Hp left on the last impale before P2 with Tol Barad trinket (awesome in P2 for Elementium Terrors) and Avengers of Hyjal dodge trinket (55k absorb on impale = win). Due to my low gear I had to go for full stamina gems nearly everywhere because these trinkets are really awesome for this fight

3) If you try it with only 2 healers never bring down arm tentacle under 90% before mutated corruption is down. The arm tentacle would begin to aoe on your raid and your healers wouldn't be able to keep up. If you try it with only 1 tank and 3 healers your dps would have to dps several arm at once (multidot)

4) Dk tanks and Druids are best tanks on this, even more with 4 parts T13. Pallys are ok but don't really keep up. Warriors rock on spine but are quite meh on Madness. Dk tanks are just insane "lol AMS I take no damage from bloods and terrors lol don't heal me lol"

5) The fight is really really caster friendly, even more if you are doing it with only 1 tank

6) You can use the following tactic to soak up Impale if there is no tank with enough cooldowns (mandatory if you are going for 3 healers 1 tank)
-> hand of salv on yourself (glyphed) when 2 seconds remain before impale and have every people stading away except a sp or a rogue. When the Impale is cast on the sp or the rogue just cancel your salv, your rogue would vanish or your sp would use dispersion. It's advisable to use hand of sac on the soaker just before hand of salv on you to avoid him being oneshot by a white hit from the tentacle during the 2 seconds. worked perfectly for us

7) Crush from the tentacle hit for ~110k on everybody even tanks. Don't have more than 1 person being crushed at the same time. it's bad whatever setup you use and your healers wouldn't keep up a long time.

8 The parasite dot does hit for a lot of damage unless you are under nozdormu's dome. If you get the dot (never happens if you are a tank) standing in the dome until it fades and the parasite spawns would help your healers alot. When it spawns it would kill people close to the spawn point except the one who got the dot, dont stand close to the person who had the parasite dot, 8 yards distance is ok. Spawning the parasite in Nozdormu's dome would make the cast time of the parasite much slower, giving your dps more time to kill it before it explodes

9) Try to have your tanks/your tank standing at the edge of the platform and save the spots closer to Nozdormu's time zone for your dps/healers so they don't have a lot of travel time when they have the parasite

10) Spellweave is extremely powerfull on the encounter, it's oftenly more interesting to aoe down things even when you have to focus on something particular. Spellweave procs all the time in aoe and does damage on every mob so your dps would be higher even on your main target if you aoe instead of doing single target dps

11) Healing required in P2 is really heavy in 10HM. 90% of the guilds prefer to bring 3 healers 1 tank because 2 healers makes P2 really hard to survive. Expect the aoe to do 80k on every player by the end of the fight... yes 80k really

12) Shrapnels can oneshot someone wearing too much Fireland gear in P2 even with dream, a shield from disc and at full HP. If such player with low gear is targeted by shrapnel in P2 just use hand of sacrifice on him. Shrapnels oneshot tanks without dream


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our kill

log : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3idhzgaixv3gzn8b/
vid pov demonology : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Mj_5cK0aU (with vent but in french .. and at 1.30 am we were just falling asleep especially me ^^ )
vid pov sp : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Druab5aVg

Setup

1 Prot pally with 0 part
1 Feral druid with 4 parts

1 Holy pally
1 Disc

1 Rogue
1 Enh Chamy
1 Sp
1 Fire mage
1 Arcane mage
1 Demonology

Cooldown rotation for tanks we used

1 - Feral using dream + barkskin + Avenger of Hyjal trinket
2 - Pally using dream + divine protection + Avenger of Hyjal trinket

1 - Feral using Pain sup + barkskin + Avenger of Hyjal trinket
2 - Pally using Goak + divine protection + Avenger of Hyjal trinket

1 - Feral using Survival Instinct + barkskin + Avenger of Hyjal trinket
2 - Pally using Pain sup + Ardent defender + divine protection + hand of sacrifice + Avenger of Hyjal trinket

1 - Pally using Goak + divine protection + Avenger of Hyjal trinket
2 - Rogue vanishing
3 - happened sometimes. Feral using Survival Instinct + barkskin + Avenger of Hyjal trinket


Our dps used a "V" formation in P1 that proved very effective against multiple crush

We oftenly spawned the parasite at one side of the dome while the bloods were aoe on the other side (dome's attack speed debuff on blood = less dots on the tank = less heal)

Blistering tentacle = pushback on spells. If there is nobody else with concentration aura on arm tentacles you would have to switch to concentration during the time you dps the arm. It's advisable to have your holy paladin using magic resistance aura for aura mastery, not you

On 4th platform we had all our dps except our rogue staying out of melee range from the tentacle a few seconds before the second impale. I hosac our rogue then hop our druid then waited for the beginning of the cast of Impale to hol the druid in order to cancel the hop. yeah I used hop because I had to keep hosalv for me

On 4th platform we couldn't aoe down bloods because we had no more spellweave so we had to keep them for P2 to aoe them on shrapnels.
So we had to do the following things because our Feral Druid only had a 3 minutes cooldown mass taunt and it's not really a taunt (meaning he can loose aggro after 6 seconds) :
- built 3 holy powers on tentacle before I had to hos the rogue. switched to seal of insight
- used consecrate on the spawn point of the bloods then cleaved once and canceled righteous fury to built just enought threat to hold aggro on healers. blowed up a few cooldowns to stay alive
- parasite spawned - put the bloods in the dome for the attack speed debuff
- tentacle down - feral druid mass taunt and berzerk. runed away while using tol barad trinket
- righteous defense twice on druid - wait for him to loose his debuff - hosalv myself
- hosalv fades, bloods back on me - wait for druid to loose debuffs once again - bubble
- P2 - wait for shrapnels - aoe shrapnels. shrapnels go down very very quickly if you can aoe something on them

During P2 we had our feral druid taking both terrors when they spawned while I was standing at the other side of the dome waiting for him to reach 3 stacks of debuff -> taunt. used tol barad trinket + dream on it = low damages

Big damages on the raid come at 16, 11 and 6% of the boss, aswell as waves of bloods. 16% is kinda ok to heal through. For 11% and 6% you would need raid cooldowns, expect big big damages at 6%.

Dont let a single blood heal the boss. Just zerg them where they spawn. We used an assassination rogue and a fire mage to slow them. We had a rotation between our fire mage / arcane mage to cone of cold / blastwave the first that spawned and then our assassination rogue finished the job by slowing them for a longer time. Assassination is really good for this but can't really slow them directly, he has to wait for the poisons to proc so it's better to used another class on the spawn

To kill the boss you would need to do 2 waves of bloods between 2 spawns of Terrors, 16% and 11% waves or 11% and 6% waves. We chose to do 11% and 6% and ignore the last shrapnels which killed some players. Both choices are ok


hope it will help someone
Last edited by Cema on Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:00 am

Holy crap! Congrats and thanks for the info!
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Treck » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:33 am

TB trinket might be ok for last phase, but completely useless for the rest of the fight.
A pure stamina trinket would be much preferable for the rest of the fight, and not bad for p2 either.
And yes obviously the Firelands Dodge trinket with absorb is insane for impale.

About the tanks, DKs are by far the best for impale, but not as the main tank, but rather as the 2nd tank, taking bloods and half of the impales with their blood shield that can reach like 500k absorb by itself making impale a piece of cake.
Also everyone with a dot on all the targets have a chance of proccing spellweave, meaning if you can dot everything up, you can procc it like crazy.

Im suprised theres no mention of WoG, as its a excelent tool for Impales aswell with the shield. That together with the buffs and the hyjal trinket means well over a 100k shield every time.

I dont know if the timing would turn out the same way in 10man, but for 25man, if you rotate the tanks spots to take the first impale on the first 2 platforms, and 2nd on the last two, you will be able to have EVERYTHING ready every time.
Except the first time, but on yseras platform you can survive with DP+dream+wog and trinket without problem (especielly in 10man)
Then there will be 3min between every other time you take impale, resulting in never ever dying as a paladin tank on that fight.
So that means the other tank has his CDs and a painsupp if needed.
And obviously as a paladin tank you should always use sac on the other tank, so he gets even more dmg reduction, that way you should have no issues with the tanks dying.

Its also not very clear what order you are taking the platforms in, but im guessing ysera, alex, kalecgos, nozdormu?
Using CDs for the meteor landing isnt reliable in 10man or?
Having kalecgos up last insures you have no dps problems atleast, but im guessing its the prefered choice if you are going with 3 healers, and taking nozdormu last with 2 healers i guess.
As dps requirements are usually much more slack in 10man compared to 25man, maybe getting rid of kalecgos isnt that big of a deal, it will matter on the adds tho when aoeing, but it should still be doable ofc.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Cema » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:02 am

Treck wrote:Its also not very clear what order you are taking the platforms in, but im guessing ysera, alex, kalecgos, nozdormu?
Using CDs for the meteor landing isnt reliable in 10man or?
Having kalecgos up last insures you have no dps problems atleast, but im guessing its the prefered choice if you are going with 3 healers, and taking nozdormu last with 2 healers i guess.
As dps requirements are usually much more slack in 10man compared to 25man, maybe getting rid of kalecgos isnt that big of a deal, it will matter on the adds tho when aoeing, but it should still be doable ofc.


Yeah with 2 healers 2 tanks we went for ysera -> alex -> kalecgos -> nozdormu

Most 10H guilds prefer to do it with 1 tank 3 healers (which makes P2 far easier), keep Kalec and soak the meteor landing with raid cooldown and heavy healing

We didn't really know that the choice we made was the hardest and spent alot of time in P2 dying at 11 and 6%

About the dps I won't say that you need so much less dps par player than in 25 men. We killed it 10 seconds before enrage and our dps are oftenly very very high ranked dps. It has nothing to do with Ultraxion 10H which is a complete joke
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Kitmajere » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 am

Cema wrote:To kill the boss you would need to do 2 waves of bloods between 2 spawns of Terrors, 16% and 11% waves or 11% and 6% waves. We chose to do 11% and 6% and ignore the last shrapnels which killed some players. Both choices are ok


Can you please explain this a bit more? What do you mean that you chose 16% and 11% waves over 11% and 6%?
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:26 am

Just got to it tonight - so far making it to the fourth platform right enough, but our tank cd's seem to force us to stop dps every platform.

Running warrior+protadin - both with 4set.

You don't seem to mention any delays there - are we missing something?
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Cema » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:41 pm

We need no delay. We use pain sup on the tank who has no big cooldown and we switch tank sometimes. 1st on impale can become second on impale

remeber to use pain sup and hand of sacrifice when you can
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Kishandra » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:13 pm

About the dps I won't say that you need so much less dps par player than in 25 men.


See, the problem with this is you then say you do Nozdormu platform last. With hero in 25m, we're always about 1-3 seconds away from the final Cataclysm finishing when we kill the wing tentacle with Kalecgos as last platform. I figure we'd be at least 25-30 seconds behind if it were Nozdormu instead.

Can you please explain this a bit more? What do you mean that you chose 16% and 11% waves over 11% and 6%?


I imagine it means they pause at 16% and 11% to clean up adds, then do a full burn killing only bloods from 11% onwards while some pause at 11% and 6%, since the deathwing aoe ramps up every 5%.
Last edited by Kishandra on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Cema » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:47 pm

if you choose to burn the boss from 17% to 7% you would need to have your second wave of bloods spawning on shrapnels and since they can spawn at 3 different locations if they spawn on shrapnel you win, if they don't ... it's game over

we chose tu burn the boss from 12% to 0% because doing this allowed us to ignore the last shrapnel and just burn the last percent of the boss with 3 to 4 people dying from oneshot ... but we didn't really care about 1/3 of the raid dying with 10 seconds left on berzerk ~
Last edited by Cema on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:36 pm

Trying to make sure I understand the limits here -

It is a 15minute enrage.
Your kill is 14:44 - and you didn't wait for any arm/wing (or other portion of the fight?).
With two tanks, your raiddps will be on the higher end (compared to one-tank, three-heal).

Anything above that is wrong?
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby gomashon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:15 am

keep in mind
2 tank 2 heal instead of 1 tank 3 heal = more dps
Nozdormu last instead of kaleg (due to healing constraints) = less dps
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Cema » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:43 am

bringing 1 tank instead of 1 healer makes up for the loss of dps when you do Nozdormu last.

All in all dps wise it's the same. 3healers+kalec or 2healers+nozdormu. it's up to you to choose the strategy that suits you. 2healers 2tanks is just more melee friendly. 3 healers makes P2 more manageable
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:47 pm

Our one night so far has been as 2heal/2tank + spellweave last (kalec?) - so our time on the last platform is no different, and we haven't been dying to the unslowed parasite casts / bolts directly.

We give up about 20seconds to waiting for cooldowns - but potentially make it up by keeping spellweave for the entire fight there.

I think thats kind of the best of both worlds - so long as we aren't using too much to survive there, that we end up dying in p2. We haven't got past fourth platform yet, due to unrelated screwups on the 3-4 attempts we got that far, extending our id so we can go back tonight :)

My concern is we seem to be coddling our tanks by holding off on dps for their cooldown timing, when people who have killed it all mention how close they were to enrage - our dps generally do ok damage (3healed yorsahj / ultrax in the first h reset) - so hopefully we get away with it I guess - I just want it down before any nerfs :P
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:04 pm

For those solo tanking, what witchery do you guys use to survive Impale?
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Re: [10H] Madness of deathwing

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:58 pm

timoseewho wrote:For those solo tanking, what witchery do you guys use to survive Impale?

From the first post:
6) You can use the following tactic to soak up Impale if there is no tank with enough cooldowns (mandatory if you are going for 3 healers 1 tank)
-> hand of salv on yourself (glyphed) when 2 seconds remain before impale and have every people stading away except a sp or a rogue. When the Impale is cast on the sp or the rogue just cancel your salv, your rogue would vanish or your sp would use dispersion. It's advisable to use hand of sac on the soaker just before hand of salv on you to avoid him being oneshot by a white hit from the tentacle during the 2 seconds. worked perfectly for us
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