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[10H] Spine of Deathwing

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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby madmessias » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:13 pm

Cema wrote:We don't wait the amalgamation to be at 400k hp to burn the bloods in aoe. We just burn them during the dps on the amalgamation with a cooldown on the raid. You just can't stop dps on the amalgamation. You have to aoe the bloods the clever way with the amalgamation standing 1 yard away from them so it takes big damages from aoe too

log : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 514&e=4179
vid (holy pov) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fzNQytBb_Y

Can you tell us how you handled the dispels? Just dispel till it gets :Earth, and then get it into the tank?
Did the amalgation hit hard on the feral? Figured we can just let a frost DK take it for awhile, while we aoe?

How long between the tendon phases, just 1.5min? Got some 2min cd's we would like available all the time but ye might not be possible
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby bvennik » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:32 pm

rijn dael wrote:You have made my day sir :-)

Is there a syntactical way to include a specific doomguard in that(guid maybe?) - I can manually include pets by name, but doomguard is a generic guardian, not a named pet.
/hug

Pets added, but no way to determine who owns the doomguard

Sidenote for anyone wanting this in game, recount does show it - but excludes pets and guardians.

/happydance.


In that specfic log there's only one Warlock. So all damage done bij the doomguard can credited to said lock (madlax)

Maybe this will give more insight:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p ... 2Madlax%22

I'm not yet familiar with GUID and the expresion editor. It would be sweet for other logs with more locks.
I'll look into it.


EDIT:
It seems you can use

masterSourceUid=8 and sourcename="Doomguard"

as expression. If you filter on player-->warlocks--<name> you can find de mastersourceID in the URL (Found it??)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p ... omguard%22

Don't have a WoL parse with multuple locks to confirm....

EDIT2:
(check the queries in expression, first one is yours. 2nd one is with actortype="Pet")
Is this your desired end result :

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p ... 01&e=11450

or

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p ... 01&e=11450
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:02 am

targetname="Burning Tendons" and (sourcename="Madlax" or (masterSourceUid=8 and sourcetype="Pet") )

Aha!

You are a magical reverse engineer :)

You are correct btw, in that log there is only one warlock, but in my guild we run two - and occasionally two boomkins (with their guardians etc), I haven't got a personal log with both of us in the raid, but here is a random 25m log, with multiple warlocks running 2set (Fiery Imp proc) - obscure way to prove it, but that successfully selects the correct imp only - and we have proven above we can isolate damage against a target by time range - Q.E.D.! :)
Using that though, I can see the proper breakdown on anyone, which helps a lot in isolating issues.

Hah!

Taking the end of a damage by target url, we click on the players name, and get a details page (but showing all the interesting values we need).
However, the url actually includes the targetid. eg "/details/5/?s=993&e=1346&target=106"

using targetId, sourceId, and masterSourceUid, we can generate the 'correct' link from that!

The expression we want to use is:
Code: Select all
masterHealSourceUid=playerid and masterSourceUid=playerid and

Since I really don't know how to hack up a nice chrome plugin for it - heres a formula that will work in excel. Paste the url in A1 cell, paste the formula anywhere else.

[code]=LEFT(A1,FIND("/details/",A1,1))&"analyze/dd/spell/?x=masterHealSourceUid%3D"&MID(A1,(FIND("/details/",A1,1)+9),(FIND("/?",A1,1)-(FIND("/details/",A1,1)+9)))&"+and+masterSourceUid%3D"&MID(A1,(FIND("/details/",A1,1)+9),(FIND("/?",A1,1)-(FIND("/details/",A1,1)+9)))&"+and+targetUid%3D"&RIGHT(A1,LEN(A1)-FIND("&target=",A1,1)-7)&"+&s="&MID(A1,(FIND("?s=",A1,1)+3),(FIND("&e=",A1,1)-(FIND("?s=",A1,1)+3)))&"&e="&MID(A1,(FIND("&e=",A1,1)+3),(FIND("&target=",A1,1)-(FIND("&e=",A1,1)+3)))&"&target="&RIGHT(A1,LEN(A1)-FIND("&target=",A1,1)-7)


It will take the details for a player, when clicked from the Analyze-Damage Done-by source, and give what it should really show

(This is usable with any target, since it pulls targetid, playerid, and start/end times directly from the URL string)

Added a 'plx-fix-me' thread to wol forums, but it must have been brought up before!

Edit: WoL guy suggested an improvement to my script - it now works for healers :-)
Last edited by rijn dael on Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby bvennik » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:10 am

Looks neat!

I hope de feature request gets filled.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Cema » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:15 am

madmessias wrote:
Cema wrote:We don't wait the amalgamation to be at 400k hp to burn the bloods in aoe. We just burn them during the dps on the amalgamation with a cooldown on the raid. You just can't stop dps on the amalgamation. You have to aoe the bloods the clever way with the amalgamation standing 1 yard away from them so it takes big damages from aoe too

log : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 514&e=4179
vid (holy pov) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fzNQytBb_Y

Can you tell us how you handled the dispels? Just dispel till it gets :Earth, and then get it into the tank?
Did the amalgation hit hard on the feral? Figured we can just let a frost DK take it for awhile, while we aoe?

How long between the tendon phases, just 1.5min? Got some 2min cd's we would like available all the time but ye might not be possible


about the dispels yes it works like that

the amalgamation doesn't hit hard on feral with only 1 or 2 stacks. after 4 stacks it hits a bit hard. never have it with more than 5 stacks on the offtank it becomes really dangerous. Considering our feral cannot take critical strike you would have to be even more carefull with a frost dk

You cant wait for 2min cd for tendons, you would be overwhelmed. quickness is the key of this fight
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:32 am

You mean 1-tank overwhelmed? There are more than a few 2tank / 3heal / 5dps logs showing 2minute 2/2/2 lifts - but with only 5 dps, you either need insane class stacking, or full cooldowns for each I guess.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Cema » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Well ... I'm a bit sceptical. With 5 dps you are asking for bit more than 1.2M per dps per round which is really alot. plus you will have less dps on amalgamations and blood which means you will have even more bloods than we did
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:22 pm

With my group when we were trying 5dps/2tank/3heal, we were hitting next lift at the 1m45s-1m50s mark. 10 seconds more for a lot of raid dps to become available isn't quite so bad.

My raid's classmix isn't capable of front-loaded damage stacking though, so hopefully we will try your approach out this reset :)

We did try the reverse logic of 2tank/4dps/4heals, 3/3/3 - it did not go well :P
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:45 pm

Which tank gets priority on the neltharion buff? I'm guessing tanks get them first, then just anyone else after?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Kishandra » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:17 pm

You'll want the blood tank to have priority on the Neltharion buff. Some updates:

- Apparently the thing expiring leaves only 1 debuff on 10man.
- In 25m at least, players were capped to 2 debuffs per player instead of 3
- I'm not sure *why* this works, but if you have your tanks stand near the top left tentacle, and the rest of the raid stand near the bottom right tentacle on pull (where you kill 3 corruptions off the bat), dispels put earth on the tanks with a better than 60% chance. This is a totally alien mechanic to me, but it works that way and only on the pull it seems, so abuse this AI while you can, heh.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:07 pm

Kishandra wrote:You'll want the blood tank to have priority on the Neltharion buff. Some updates:

- Apparently the thing expiring leaves only 1 debuff on 10man.
- In 25m at least, players were capped to 2 debuffs per player instead of 3
- I'm not sure *why* this works, but if you have your tanks stand near the top left tentacle, and the rest of the raid stand near the bottom right tentacle on pull (where you kill 3 corruptions off the bat), dispels put earth on the tanks with a better than 60% chance. This is a totally alien mechanic to me, but it works that way and only on the pull it seems, so abuse this AI while you can, heh.

Cool, from what I understand, each amalgamation only applies the debuff once, so is it wise to not barrel roll so quickly and to have them cast it first before the roll? Otherwise, by the end of the fight you'd only have 6 total right? I haven't come across any videos that purposely wait for the debuffs, so hm.. How much time do you have to dispel the initial debuffs before they morph? Is it 10 secs? And dispelling the good one can never turn it back into a bad one, is that correct? I can't wait to do this-_-.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Kishandra » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Yeah, you want to have them cast the debuff before the roll. Assuming nothing fancy, you should have 15-16 total debuffs going out for the fight. The debuff lasts 15 or 16 seconds from what I recall, and it keeps its duration every time it's dispelled. And yes, the good one can't ever morph back into a bad one.

Here's a video of us killing it, where we both wait for the debuffs to come out, and utilize the positioning trick to get all 3 debuffs at the start onto our three tanks immediately: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YHMmOBqR8Q
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Brosterr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:24 am

Cema wrote:Feeding amalgamation and rolling them is an important thing. You can get rid of many bloods every time you kill a tendon. Just kill tentacles, grab amalgamations, aoe down bloods and roll. It's not easy to do because it has to be done quickly and without cooldown on the raid, cooldowns have to be saved for the real aoe on bloods during P2 and P3. If you're good at it you can get rid of roughly a total ~20 bloods by feeding amalgamations and rolling them

You can feed amalgamations with more than 9 bloods I believe. Just try to kill the bloods on the same point. The amalgamation will feed on the spot and take all the bloods during the lag and will realize only 0,5 after that is has 9 stacks. Don't expect to get rid of all the bloods by doing this but it can surely help. One more thing to say about amalgamation is that you will need to feed them really quickly


I am sure i am missing something here, but can you explain why it is important that the amalg's eat the bloods? Like, my understanding is that it is more than ok to just kill bloods and let them lay where they die. Do the puddles do something on heroic im unaware of? If not, like i said, why not just carry the concept of "if we can survive the blast from killing the ooze's, kill them and leave the residue for later use".

Also Cema, in your video i see you taking bloods one at a time as they spawn in the first stage. Is this because you were solo tanking at that point so you just pick up bloods as they spawn and they happen to die under the amalg? What i am getting at is: why absorb oozes before the amalg is ready to be killed? Why not get him to ~600k and take him through the 9 stack you make (have an OT or frost dk get agro of oozes and kill them 10 yards behind amalg).

I am asking these questions because i am about to start the fight, not because i am questioning anything you did, just curious. Im assuming there is still alot about the fight i do not know, besides strat based things.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:41 pm

Brosterr wrote:
Cema wrote:Feeding amalgamation and rolling them is an important thing. You can get rid of many bloods every time you kill a tendon. Just kill tentacles, grab amalgamations, aoe down bloods and roll. It's not easy to do because it has to be done quickly and without cooldown on the raid, cooldowns have to be saved for the real aoe on bloods during P2 and P3. If you're good at it you can get rid of roughly a total ~20 bloods by feeding amalgamations and rolling them

You can feed amalgamations with more than 9 bloods I believe. Just try to kill the bloods on the same point. The amalgamation will feed on the spot and take all the bloods during the lag and will realize only 0,5 after that is has 9 stacks. Don't expect to get rid of all the bloods by doing this but it can surely help. One more thing to say about amalgamation is that you will need to feed them really quickly


I am sure i am missing something here, but can you explain why it is important that the amalg's eat the bloods? Like, my understanding is that it is more than ok to just kill bloods and let them lay where they die. Do the puddles do something on heroic im unaware of? If not, like i said, why not just carry the concept of "if we can survive the blast from killing the ooze's, kill them and leave the residue for later use".

Yep, what happens is that the 'residues' slowly move towards the holes left behind from the corruptions and turn back into a bloods, essentially giving you more bloods to handle. So what people usually do is (assuming a 2-2-2), after killing the first and second tendon, to grab the amalgamations and soak up the residues before doing the barrel roll (the buff that the amalgamations get cap at 9 but can still soak beyond that).
Last edited by timoseewho on Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Brosterr » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:39 pm

Thank you, that makes sense now.
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