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Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby bldavis » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:04 pm

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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Amirya » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:25 pm

Lightbeard wrote:
Amirya wrote:So? You can't have a one sided debate. Otherwise, what's the point?


My point was this thread isn't discussing bullying suicides. It's talking about whether or not it's ok to kill a bully under the circumstances in this case.

And here I thought we'd expanded this thread from that very narrow line of thinking to, "What are the consequences of bullying?" In this case, it would range from self defense to suicide - the gamut of things to do to get the bully to leave you the fuck alone.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Fivelives » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 pm

It's hard to pinpoint the consequences of bullying alone, since there are usually a LOT of factors at play in how a child develops from entering school through graduation.

In my case, bullying got me interested in weightlifting and general health, which lead to the career path I'm on now. That's not the case for a lot of people (and, granted - they have it a LOT worse than I did), but I can clearly pinpoint "wanting bullies to leave me the fuck alone" as the main reason that I'm as awesome as I am today.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:28 pm

Gracerath wrote:
Lightbeard wrote:
Amirya wrote:So? You can't have a one sided debate. Otherwise, what's the point?


My point was this thread isn't discussing bullying suicides. It's talking about whether or not it's ok to kill a bully under the circumstances in this case.


Its a perfectly fine tangent that fits well within the topic, imo. Its like saying why are we discussing engagement rings when we were originally talking about wedding cake?

Going to have to agree with Lightbeard here. I don't think Lightbeard is suggesting that we can't talk about bullying leading to suicides, and had it been brought up naturally no one would have batted an eyelash.

However, the mention of that topic came across as if we were involved in some injustice in this thread for having not talked about it, while having many pages talking about the kid who fought back.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:32 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Going to have to agree with Lightbeard here.

*eyebrow* I'm fairly certain that breaks several forum rules.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Brekkie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:33 pm

Fivelives wrote:It's hard to pinpoint the consequences of bullying alone, since there are usually a LOT of factors at play in how a child develops from entering school through graduation.

In my case, bullying got me interested in weightlifting and general health, which lead to the career path I'm on now. That's not the case for a lot of people (and, granted - they have it a LOT worse than I did), but I can clearly pinpoint "wanting bullies to leave me the fuck alone" as the main reason that I'm as awesome as I am today.


This got me thinking...

While there have been a ton of studies done on the effects of bullying on victims, there hasn't really been a whole lot of attention given to looking into WHY people bully at all.
It seems to me that something so pervasive and seemingly spontaneously occuring accross all cultures and locations surely must have some kind of evolutionary behavioral function. You combine that with the evidence that people's reaction to bullying seems highly binary; they either cope extremely well or they cope extremely badly, and I think a scientific case might be made that such behavior serves a purpose.

Whether such a hypothesis is politically correct or socially palatable is another story...

edit: By the phrase "serves a purpose", I refer to a reproductive success/evolutionary purpose for the species as a whole. Not an implication that bullying is somehow a positive thing for the one on the receiving end.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Fivelives » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:08 am

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with a pack mentality. Bullies are almost always low in social status, so they try to "climb the ladder" by violence toward people who are above them.

As far as coping well or poorly, that's probably just chance or some kind of built-in resistance. It's like some people are resistant to PTSD after traumatic events, and some people aren't. I'd be interested in a study that linked PTSD resistance to coping skills with bullies - I think it would be safe to assume that people who cope well with bullies are resistant to trauma in all forms, but I've been surprised before.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Brekkie » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:59 am

Just as interesting I think would be determining if such resistance is a learned behavior. Which could potentially explain its cultivation in a safe environment with no stakes.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Fivelives » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:43 am

It could have something to do with insecurity. People who are insecure, but not insecure enough to be bullies, will be hit harder by bullying and less resilient if their self-image is fragile enough to be affected by other people's opinions. I'm not entirely sure if insecurity is a learned behavior, but intuitively that sounds about right. We're way beyond me here though, I'm not super great at psychology or sociology stuff.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Koatanga » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:54 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Going to have to agree with Lightbeard here. I don't think Lightbeard is suggesting that we can't talk about bullying leading to suicides, and had it been brought up naturally no one would have batted an eyelash.

However, the mention of that topic came across as if we were involved in some injustice in this thread for having not talked about it, while having many pages talking about the kid who fought back.


My apologies if it was inappropriate to consider in this topic, but I didn't mean it as an accusation of injustice.

I meant to say that we should consider the number of people who commit suicides each year as a result of bullying when assesing the balance of force here. The point is you don't need a knife or a gun to kill someone, and that in 15-25 cases each year, bullying ended up in death without the bully actually doing the deed.

The point is that those 15-25 cases every year aren't newsworthy or postworthy to us, but the once time the tables get reversed is. Maybe in the grand scheme of things, this incident scores one on the victim's side of the ledger for a change.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Dantriges » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:49 am

A question ame up when I was debating the thread with some RL friends.

How many school shootings are made by bully victims who finally had enough and tought "Ah well if I can´t stand it anymore and suicide anyways I get my revenge at least an take them with me?
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:17 pm

Dantriges wrote:A question ame up when I was debating the thread with some RL friends.

How many school shootings are made by bully victims who finally had enough and tought "Ah well if I can´t stand it anymore and suicide anyways I get my revenge at least an take them with me?


Apparently, more than two-thirds.

The link between bullying and school violence has attracted increasing attention since the 1999 rampage at Colorado's Columbine High School. That year, two shotgun-wielding students, both of whom Peterson said had been identified as gifted and who had been bullied for years, killed 13 people, wounded 24 and then committed suicide. A year later an analysis by officials at the U.S. Secret Service of 37 premeditated school shootings found that bullying, which some of the shooters described "in terms that approached torment," played a major role in more than two-thirds of the attacks.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/15/AR2006051501103.html
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