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Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:28 am

Can you honestly say you're 100% sure you could have stopped stabbing after 3-4 times? Adrenaline, panic, fear, and any number of other emotions could have caused him not to realize exactly what he was doing until the 12th stab.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Mannstein » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:48 am

Skye1013 wrote:Can you honestly say you're 100% sure you could have stopped stabbing after 3-4 times? Adrenaline, panic, fear, and any number of other emotions could have caused him not to realize exactly what he was doing until the 12th stab.


My mother worked on a court, my best friend's wife does some community work as lawier (sp?), and i never heard of 12 stabs being considered self-defense...
1/2 Stab even if a killing one (blood loss, trauma, "accident"...) is "accepted"...
12stabs? At least here (non-english country) Public Prosecuter had to prove that the assaulter hadn't stoped till the (12th)last stabs... if he couldn't prove that then the self-defence would be hard to be used...

I could see next defense strategy claiming that he was still defending himself and "adrenaline rush"/"temporary insanity", but any good prosecuter would pull up the "premeditation" with the carring and showing off of the Knife...
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Forgrim » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:38 am

Skye1013 wrote:Can you honestly say you're 100% sure you could have stopped stabbing after 3-4 times? Adrenaline, panic, fear, and any number of other emotions could have caused him not to realize exactly what he was doing until the 12th stab.


I can't say I can comment since i've never actually stabbed anyone, but I have boxed and...

I have knocked a boxer unconscious in the ring, and I sure as hell didn't stop after the punch that knocked him out. That moment you let up can be the most deadliest moment for your health.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:40 am

"Play until you hear the whistle."
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Amirya » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:46 am

Mannstein wrote:I could see next defense strategy claiming that he was still defending himself and "adrenaline rush"/"temporary insanity", but any good prosecuter would pull up the "premeditation" with the carring and showing off of the Knife...


Carrying and displaying a knife does not establish premeditation. Especially when the carrier was not the aggressor, and in fact, appears to have made every effort to avoid confrontation.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Amirya wrote:
Mannstein wrote:I could see next defense strategy claiming that he was still defending himself and "adrenaline rush"/"temporary insanity", but any good prosecuter would pull up the "premeditation" with the carring and showing off of the Knife...


Carrying and displaying a knife does not establish premeditation. Especially when the carrier was not the aggressor, and in fact, appears to have made every effort to avoid confrontation.
Indeed otherwise there could never be a non premeditated use of a weapon unless you somehow found one while being attacked.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Dantriges » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:14 pm

I don´t think that you can make quite rational decisions like counting the number of stabs when you switch to combat when being assaulted with a punch to your head and at this young age.

The incident shows that bullying it´s quite a complex problem without a good way for the victim to get out of the situation.

Fight back with equal force and win: Unless the bully follows some quirky code of honor and respects you, he comes back with friends for payback time. It works sometimes, worked a bit for me. Still an outsider but not so far outside I was still an interesting target compared to Mr. Bi and Mr. Feminine. I have to say I was at a boarding school and our social hierarchy was a bit different. Like there was no escape to home option. But well, depends on the bully and you. The one fight where I got some respect was brutal and if one of us had a knife, the other guy would have bled on the floor. If there weren´t any bystanders who stepped in, one guy would have been in hospital at least.
If the bully can´t let go, well say hello to him and his friends.

Fight back and lose: Well, you lie on the floor bleeding unless someone steps in.

Go to the authorities: Guy gets three days off school and will get you somewhere else. Oh and you are now a rat. Depending on the parents of the bully he is now really annoyed with you unless he fears the punishment so much, he resorts to underhanded tactics, like abusing you verbally.

Tell the adults in general like your parents: Hey go to the authorities or you get some helpful advice like "Fight back" or "Oh it´s not so bad" or they go to the authorities. See above. Probably the most helpful thing you can do as a parent in such a situation is to send your kid to some mean self defense training. And "mean" means that no one of his friends wants to be on the receiving end, because it´s nasty, brutal and implies medical treatment after the act.

So in the end your options are limited. You need to fight and win and at the age of 15/16, you don´t pack kiddy punches anymore. In case he has friends, bring more friends who will fight for you. Depending on your social circle, this will be quite difficult.
The other option is Kill him.
In the end most people prefer to endure rather than going to the dark dark end of afflicting enough violence to send the message that you are no one to be trifled with.
Hopeful for humanity. But our society should find a solution so that our kids don´t use brute force and peer pressure to establish their pecking order. It wasn´t ok in my time, twenty years ago and it´s not ok, today.

Until then I have to say, I like the judge. That´s hardly civilized and I would prefer that this situation will never come up again but bullying is happening right now, somewhere, acouple hundred times on this earth..
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:07 pm

I am not saying that killing is right, or making any judgement on this case, but I do feel it is appropriate to point out that each year 15-25 kids commit suicide because they were bullied.

We've gone 7 pages one one kid that killed a bully, and no pages on the 15-25 killed (indirectly) by bullies each year.

Food for thought.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Lightbeard » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:54 pm

[quote="Koatanga"]I am not saying that killing is right, or making any judgement on this case, but I do feel it is appropriate to point out that each year 15-25 kids commit suicide because they were bullied.

We've gone 7 pages one one kid that killed a bully, and no pages on the 15-25 killed (indirectly) by bullies each year.

Food for thought.[/
quote]

I'd like to point out that I don't see a thread relating to that topic atm. Just saying
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Amirya » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:21 pm

So? You can't have a one sided debate. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Lightbeard » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:33 am

Amirya wrote:So? You can't have a one sided debate. Otherwise, what's the point?


My point was this thread isn't discussing bullying suicides. It's talking about whether or not it's ok to kill a bully under the circumstances in this case.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:10 am

The point is it's harder to defend his argument if you bring other sides into it... or things like logic.
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby bldavis » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:16 am

*pops a bag of popcorn*
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Gracerath » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:58 am

Lightbeard wrote:
Amirya wrote:So? You can't have a one sided debate. Otherwise, what's the point?


My point was this thread isn't discussing bullying suicides. It's talking about whether or not it's ok to kill a bully under the circumstances in this case.


Its a perfectly fine tangent that fits well within the topic, imo. Its like saying why are we discussing engagement rings when we were originally talking about wedding cake?
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Re: Florida: Bullying Victim Allowed to Kill

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:37 am

^I like cake.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
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