All Things Mr. Robot!

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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Cowmmunion » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:50 am

I just ran my pally through it, and it took my 18/12 parry/dodge (thanks blizzard, for giving noooo dodge gear) and turned it into something like 21/8. So it's not just you
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:05 am

I've noticed it do things like that too. I think it's a side-effect of the CTC-capping algorithm. In other words, it's trying really really hard to get you to exactly 102.4% and minimizing the overage, and sometimes it might do that more effectively by unbalancing dodge and parry and devaluing the net avoidance you get per rating.

At least, that's my guess. I really don't know for sure.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:53 am

Cowmmunion wrote:(thanks blizzard, for giving noooo dodge gear)


Not a whole lot of consolation but our weapon enchant (Windwalk) and most of the relevant trinkets are dodge or have use/proc being dodge. Stay of execution, Fire of the Deep, Moonwell Vial, Vial of Stolen Memories, the new HoT proc one etc... So it gets a little closer to being balanced during WW proc or use/proc of the these trinkets. Doubt that Mr. Robot takes these things into account though.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Jeremoot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:08 am

Gab wrote:
Cowmmunion wrote:(thanks blizzard, for giving noooo dodge gear)


Not a whole lot of consolation but our weapon enchant (Windwalk) and most of the relevant trinkets are dodge or have use/proc being dodge. Stay of execution, Fire of the Deep, Moonwell Vial, Vial of Stolen Memories, the new HoT proc one etc... So it gets a little closer to being balanced during WW proc or use/proc of the these trinkets. Doubt that Mr. Robot takes these things into account though.


According to the forums, it does. There's a sticky somewhere that explains they take procs into account when balancing dodge/parry.

I tried clearing my cache and hard-refreshing the page. Still, even with the feast/cauldron option unchecked, it's trying to use Feast / Cauldron. That's with ANY of the pre-sets, as well as custom weights were I set dodge / parry to 0.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:23 am

Jeremoot wrote:According to the forums, it does. There's a sticky somewhere that explains they take procs into account when balancing dodge/parry.


Good to know. I hadn't read much of the forum. Ignorance is bliss! I knew it took averages from proc/use uptimes for weightings on DPS trinkets. I didn't think it would do the same for balancing dodge/parry through reforging though. Explains some of the balancing issues then.

Jeremoot wrote:I tried clearing my cache and hard-refreshing the page. Still, even with the feast/cauldron option unchecked, it's trying to use Feast / Cauldron. That's with ANY of the pre-sets, as well as custom weights were I set dodge / parry to 0.


Could it be a browser issue? I'm using Firefox (I assume the newest version can't check since I'm at work) and it works fine for me...
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:42 am

Jeremoot wrote:According to the forums, it does. There's a sticky somewhere that explains they take procs into account when balancing dodge/parry.

I thought it was the other way around, actually. In that they don't account for the WW proc in balancing dodge/parry, because there's no obviously correct way to do so.

Jeremoot wrote:I tried clearing my cache and hard-refreshing the page. Still, even with the feast/cauldron option unchecked, it's trying to use Feast / Cauldron. That's with ANY of the pre-sets, as well as custom weights were I set dodge / parry to 0.

Wait, I misunderstood then. If you check Feast/Cauldron, it will force Feast/Cauldron, which is what I thought you were asking. If you un-check it, it should use whatever gets you closest to 102.4%. Since they bumped Stamina up to a ridiculous 1.5 weighting, that should heavily favor the flask over the elixir options, but I have no idea why it won't go for mastery food (especially if you set dodge/parry to zero).

I'll have to play with it some today, since I logged out in tank gear.

It's sort of frustrating that they had it pretty much right, and then kept changing things in such a way as to make it useless again.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Jeremoot » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:53 am

Yes, it's really frustrating. Before this change it was behaving exactly how I wanted it to. I'll set hit to next priority after expertise soft cap and it's telling me to use feast/cauldron, and reforge 5% hit away to get avoidance up to CTC cap rather than getting that CTC from Mastery food and elixirs. WITH 0 rating for Dodge / Parry. In the developer world we tend to call this "borked."

Here's a quick screencap, dodge and parry set to 0, Feast / Cauldron unchecked. Yet, it's reforging AWAY from hit and mastery to give me 4% more dodge.

Image

Weights I was using that worked perfectly fine before the recent change:
MH DPS 0.85
MH Speed 1.7
Mastery 2
Exp 1.65 (Soft cap weight: 0.7)
Sta 1.5
Hit 1.08
Dodge 0.75
Parry 0.75
Strength 0.66
Armor 0.5
Crit 0.5
Agility 0.4
Haste 0.2
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:16 am

I've been conversing with yellowfive on the AMR forums about this. Basically, they built the CTC toggle into the default algorithm, and have made some tweaks that reduce the direct influence of the stat weights. In other words, the stat weights are more "suggestions" than strict parameters now. They say the presets work much better now (which I could maybe believe; the PvE default set seems to be working properly, at any rate. However, it makes the custom weights setting basically useless, because your means of control (the stat weights) is disregarded in many cases.

I've suggested they revert the custom stat weights setting, such that in that setting alone you get the "prioritize CTC" button, and more direct input from the stat weights. We'll see if they implement it. If they do, hopefully they can satisfy both parts of the population. If not, the tool will become fairly useless to anyone who actually wants to play with stat weights and customize their builds for specific bosses.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Jeremoot » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:00 am

Personally, the site is completely useless to me if it doesn't take into account my stat weights.

Do you know of any other sites that will do gemming as well as reforging? I've seen sites that will reforge your gear based on your stat weights, but it won't incorporate gems as well. That was the selling point of AskMrRobot for me.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Korendil » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:37 pm

Jeremoot wrote:Personally, the site is completely useless to me if it doesn't take into account my stat weights.

Do you know of any other sites that will do gemming as well as reforging? I've seen sites that will reforge your gear based on your stat weights, but it won't incorporate gems as well. That was the selling point of AskMrRobot for me.


I've kind of given up on Ask Mr. Robot for my tankadin since the lock gem and enchant feature doesn't work for me. I've gone back to only using chardev. It doesn't have an optimizer, but you can customize your char exactly how you want to.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby sfrog » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:05 am

The sort-of-work around I'm using is to do one suggested change, log out, reload, do one suggested change, log out, reload, until everything is done. It's a pain in the ass, but it seems to be working for me.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:31 am

Jeremoot wrote:Personally, the site is completely useless to me if it doesn't take into account my stat weights.

Do you know of any other sites that will do gemming as well as reforging? I've seen sites that will reforge your gear based on your stat weights, but it won't incorporate gems as well. That was the selling point of AskMrRobot for me.



I'll toss out chardev.org again and agree with Korendil. No automation with a super "optimize" button but it lets you load your character and change everything about your gems and reforging letting you find out what is best.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:07 am

Jeremoot wrote:
Gab wrote:
Cowmmunion wrote:(thanks blizzard, for giving noooo dodge gear)


Not a whole lot of consolation but our weapon enchant (Windwalk) and most of the relevant trinkets are dodge or have use/proc being dodge. Stay of execution, Fire of the Deep, Moonwell Vial, Vial of Stolen Memories, the new HoT proc one etc... So it gets a little closer to being balanced during WW proc or use/proc of the these trinkets. Doubt that Mr. Robot takes these things into account though.


According to the forums, it does. There's a sticky somewhere that explains they take procs into account when balancing dodge/parry.

I tried clearing my cache and hard-refreshing the page. Still, even with the feast/cauldron option unchecked, it's trying to use Feast / Cauldron. That's with ANY of the pre-sets, as well as custom weights were I set dodge / parry to 0.



This is something I do not particularly like. I have never been a fan of any site or calculations that take procs into account because you never know if the proc is going to be there when you need it. If (when I had it) windwalk proc'd, that's a little extra dodge on top of the cake. If it was on ICD, then I'm still at tCTC.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:46 am

Fenrìr wrote:This is something I do not particularly like. I have never been a fan of any site or calculations that take procs into account because you never know if the proc is going to be there when you need it. If (when I had it) windwalk proc'd, that's a little extra dodge on top of the cake. If it was on ICD, then I'm still at tCTC.


As I said earlier, jeremoot is incorrect. They don't take procs into account for the CTC calculation.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:00 am

theckhd wrote:As I said earlier, jeremoot is incorrect. They don't take procs into account for the CTC calculation.



Ah, cheers for the bookmark. I don't really browse the AMR forums so I would have easily missed this.
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