[25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

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[25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby warden » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:16 pm

I didn't see a thread about this, but since it will likely be the 2nd or 3rd heroic kill for many guilds, I wanted to make one. We got it last night, and honestly the only hard part was not accidentally causing any of the (literally) dozens of damage-avoidance exploits. Fortunately, after some forum MvP-level reporting, Dev emailing, and GM ticket opening, most of these should be fixed shortly (hopefully tomorrow) if they aren't already. To clarify the Dev and GM position regarding the use of abilites on this fight, Abilites that clear movement speed debuffs and snares, when used to clear a movement speed debuff or snare, is working as intended. Using them to negate an entire source of damage during the encounter is an exploit and not allowed. The only reason I am even posting this portion is to acknowledge that these exist, warn upstanding community members what is/isn't considered an exploit, and assure them that they've been reported and will be fixed very soon.

On to the good stuff:

From a ret perspective, picking up one point in Acts of Sacrifice was huge, as it let Ana and I dodge ice waves and sit on one pillar the whole time, saving our Hands of Freedom for our other melee if the got tagged with a bad frostflake. Our tank (DK) survived focused assaults pretty easily, using two cooldowns of ~50% strength to cover the entire period of the attack.

During lightning phase, 6 people can make a chain from one conductor to the next with good spacing... 7 makes it easier, but causes extra damage. Pets can really screw up a chain if they end up in the wrong spot and send the chain to the wrong person. For a good benchmark, each jump takes about 1 second to jump, and often if a chain gets broken for any reason, you're going to wipe. Nature resist can help mitigate this damage somewhat. We just healed through storm pillar damage, as it wasn't worth risking a chain break.

During the frost phase, if you elect to have some ranged stand in the bubble and heal through the damage, multi-dot classes can reach 3 of the 4 pillars at once (our melee took down the 4th).
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Boèndal » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:56 pm

Actually you can connect with 5 people from one conductor to another. Classes who are able to move and cast while going into the big bubble become immune unless they leave again. This happended after those weekend fixes (mages, hunter, shaman worked). Don't know if that's going to be fixed. On the other hand healing that water debuff is trivial and so are the overall dps requirements.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby warden » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:06 pm

Happy to report that a large number of these bugs (exploits) were fixed with today's hotfixes. I'm assuming the moving-while-casting one was too; we reported it twice via reliable channels along with many of the other things that were corrected.

Beondal is 100% correct on the water debuff; healing through it is definately a viable strat, and that's how we got our kill. As the damage is 15% max health per tick, we found that having ranged and healers click off Fort actually reduced the damage taken.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Thark » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:56 am

How are you doing the Lightning positioning to use 5? Geometry shows that it actually should use less people to make a "X" on the platform and have 4 chains going through the middle, but we didn't have much success with that. I want to try more of a "C" along the edges of the platform, just making a straight line from each conductor to the next. That way there would only be 3 lines, but they'd have to be a little longer. Hopefully those explanations make sense.

For the Ice phase, we didn't know/use any of the exploits/bugs/strats that have the people in the middle taking no damage. Couldn't quite figure out how to pull that off, so we had all of our ranged/healers standing in the center, and because we didn't have a lot of time on it DPS was awful and the phase took forever so the healers kept complaining that it wasn't doable. But I think that's more a function of us never leaving the phase because it was lasting 2m+. Doing it properly I don't think it it should be an issue.

We were also 2 tanking it. Her moving doesn't break Focused Assault, but if a 2nd tank stood at range and taunted when she cast it, she'd spend most of the FA time moving and thus it wasn't dangerous to either tank. Didn't get far enough to see if using 2 tanks would hurt against the enrage timer.

We only had time for about 8 pulls each on Hagara, Yor'sahj, and Zon'ozz and this one seemed the easiest by a good bit.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Pliers » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:05 am

Human racial can also clear the frost debuff, if you're like me don't want to respec or move your wandering talent point for 1 fight. In general, I prefer a reduced CD on WoG (which was surprisingly handy on H. Yorsahj).

Since a pet can chain the lightning, sticking it in the dead center of the room should be able to make the chaining easier. I know our DK who did it on our kill had mentioned it was hitting him for a lot of damage.

Once you have the chain completed, the first and last person in that row should move, so that they don't continue to take damage. The positioning is a bit touchy sometimes, and we actually had the lightning doing circles around the center, instead of going down one of the links, so be precise with where you stand, and don't wait longer than needed.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Kishandra » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:12 pm

The X line up on lightning phase is definitely faster and more efficient than the C lineup.

You can straight up heal through the focused assault with correctly applied cooldowns. In the event that you want to taunt kite FA, you should probably use a holy pally to do so instead of wasting a slot on a second tank to do one little thing.

The enrage timer isn't particularly tight, but it's still there and there's no real reason to bring a sub-par comp.

As for the ice phase, it generally lasts a minute to two to get all 4 pillars down (it's still 32 mil hp total.) Most of the exploits have been fixed, what you generally want is to stack only the best multidotters in the middle if you can, and everyone else rotate around the outer edges, or dodge waves by ducking into the bubble as the wave passes. It really is a lot of damage to heal through 15 ranged all in the center at once. Furthermore, whoever gets frostflake should probably get dispelled in the bubble as well, as the ice patch doesn't apply any further snare than the basic bubble debuff already does.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Herrbjorn » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:55 am

We got our first kill last night! It took double the tries thanks to a new bug: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3871217186

We went from 4-6 DCs/deaths per fight to 1-2 by dispelling the debuff before it reached 10 stacks.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby djlar » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:18 am

We could only do the X formation once sucessfuly.. that sucked, mostly the out of range people died, I was one of them, hit my defensive CDs and still got gibbed by stacks of lightning..

The ice strat that ranged and healers stand in center is not working well, we can't seem to finish off the last 2 totems, melee can't do crap to them because they have to either continue moving or go to the center to jump the wall and continue to DPS it.. but it's 2-3 hits and you have to move again for the next wall.

Just correct me on the lightning strat, the DBM range circle, should you have your chain buddie inside or outside of that circle? if was too close we took more damage, if it was outside not much damage but it didn't chain, was hard to judge the exact distance.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby warden » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:51 am

Just inside; you're aiming for about 9 yards between each person. Something that has helped us on the X is having each spoke have a dedicated healer and make it easy to see. We put a raid marker down on each conductor, and then do this:

Healer 1 stands in the center.

In the "spoke" from healer 1 to conductor 1 is the members of raid group 1. This includes Healer 2. Healer 2 is responsible for healing the 5 people in that spoke, to include himself.

In the spoke from healer 1 to conductor 2 are the members of raid group 2. This includes healer 3. Healer 3 heals his spoke, which includes himself and the other 4 members of raid group 2.

etc...

Raid group 5 consists of healer 1 and the 4 "extras." These stay far away from the spokes and are healed by healer 6 (if 6 healing), while healer 1 performs triage. Also, all hybrids heal like mad after the ele dies, since there's really nothing else for us to do.

That help?
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Justanoob » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:41 pm

djlar wrote:We could only do the X formation once sucessfuly.. that sucked, mostly the out of range people died, I was one of them, hit my defensive CDs and still got gibbed by stacks of lightning..

The ice strat that ranged and healers stand in center is not working well, we can't seem to finish off the last 2 totems, melee can't do crap to them because they have to either continue moving or go to the center to jump the wall and continue to DPS it.. but it's 2-3 hits and you have to move again for the next wall.

Just correct me on the lightning strat, the DBM range circle, should you have your chain buddie inside or outside of that circle? if was too close we took more damage, if it was outside not much damage but it didn't chain, was hard to judge the exact distance.

Putting healers closest to the center for the X strat is key. Assign a heal to each group and the extra heal should be keeping an eye on the first people in line and snipe healing. Healers to the center help promote cross-group healing should a healer's dedicated group be safe. We had 6 people per line, and 1 standing in the most troubled quadrant.

As far as ice phase goes, if you don't have the dps to down the pillars before you become overwhelmed with heals while standing in the center, you won't have the dps to beat the boss before the enrage if you take your whole raid and run around the outside. Have all of your ranged start on the same pillar and work clockwise around, killing one at a time. Smart use of raid cd's and personal cd's for healers become key here. One way we found was easy to deal with the phase was to use an aura mastery when we all run in, then use a different raid cd upon moving onto a new pillar. So, first pillar we come to is the priest bubble, when ranged start attack the second it's a raid wall, 3rd is spirit link totem, etc, etc. Just organize it smart. We went 6 heals, with decent raid dps (not amazing raid dps). If your dps is great, you can go 7 heals. We even did a few attempts going 5 heals and managed to live through both phases, but may not have had the mana to last the whole fight that way.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby sakkdaddy » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:33 am

I just put 4 groups of 5 in each corner to work out their lineup, and I stand dead center, and we do the X strat every week. Put classes like Moonkins and Shadowpriests on the outer edges that can take damage the best, because they will be in range of the fewest healers. If someone dies, we have 4 extras (2 healers, 2 tanks) who can fill in, as well as pets.

I remind people every week to move their pets out of the way so they don't slow down the links or cause too much damage to one spot.

One hunter in the middle for Aspect and you shouldn't need more than 2 passes to kill everything.
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Re: [25H] Hagara the Stormbinder

Postby Thark » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:29 pm

A few points:

When we tried AOTP people complained that they were being dazed. I'll have to check that one out again.

Maybe we're alone here, but we used a "C" formation for Lightning, and it's what worked for us. Both work, just be sure people are certain where they are standing and using CD's properly.

For Frost, what helped us get out of that phase was splitting melee amongst the pillars, and not having them in a giant pack. Then have Ranged work on the highest ones so they die relatively evenly. When we focused on one at a time (either by having the whole group run or by ducking in) we'd have too much downtime for melee.

For us, the enrage was actually a pretty big deal. We were consistently hitting enrage with 3-10% left, using 1 tank/6 healers. This is actually the first fight I've DPSed all expansion, and with just 2 raid drops from Firelands I was on par with some of our Rogues/Locks, which probably says something about our low DPS.
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