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Prot PVP @ 85

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:53 pm

ryanh55 wrote:then ran across another prot pally that was mostly gemming Parry and dodge, and mastery.. As I understand it mastery is good in that it will block melee attacks against us but not much for those spell ranged attacks. Does Parry and dodge work against PVP the same way it works in PVE? If it did why would we need resilience?


I'm no expert, certainly not highly rated, but here's my thoughts on it.

Parry/Dodge are great versus melee teams, but don't do much versus spells, whereas Resilience affects all damage equally. Casters (and snares) are very much the bane of my existence, compared to melee.

In full resilience gear, you will have ~4k resilience, which is basically an always-on 40% damage reduction. You have an additional 10% from Sanctuary in prot spec, so you can look at that either as "I get to wear non-resilience trinkets" or as "I have 50% damage reduction". Without resilience, you'll be taking FAR more damage than you can heal/mitigate from any team with a caster. Note that MANY "melee" classes have things that can prevent you from dodging/parrying, also -- such as stuns, hitting you from behind, spell damage procs, diseases, or poisons. You want resilience.

You will also usually NOT be the focus target until your partner is dead, which means that dishing out enough damage to pressure a healer is important. As it is, in full ret gear (aside from sword/shield), I have a very hard time killing anyone that has a healer if I'm by myself, and losing out on Str/hit/exp would cut that significantly.

I definitely agree with Taugrim that we should stack hit/exp. You need every bit of holy power you can to be able to make a healer take enough damage to more than HoT themself.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:01 am

R.I.P. Prot PvP.
Vengeance is no longer triggered by receiving damage from other players.

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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Worldie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:49 am

With Blood DKs being so overpowered, we should have seen that coming long ago.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:54 am

Nerf four specs because one of them is OP?
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:06 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Nerf four specs because one of them is OP?


I see you and raise you:

"Nerf ret because it's double dipping from an ICC change implemented by Blizzard and not were it's where Blizzard wants them on the DPS charts?"



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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Worldie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:25 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Nerf four specs because one of them is OP?

Tanks were never intended to be viable in PvP anyway, they stated it multiple times.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:29 am

And they weren't, at least not Prot Paladins. They were subpar, but still usable if you weren't concerned about getting high ratings. With this change they won't even be worth the effort.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Worldie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:31 am

I believe the intended "niche" in PvP for tanks is base holding / flag carrying in (rated) bgs. Which they still excell at. They have no place in arena.
Remember they moving in that direction also in MoP with druid feral being separated from guardian spec (aka not having anymore high damage in a tank spec, nor high survivability in a dps spec)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:49 am

Part of our survivability right now comes from the fact that our Word of Glory scales with Vengeance.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:23 am

While I do agree this is going to hurt Tankadins in the FC'ing role, I do agree with Blizzard in this nerf. Blood DKs and well played Prot Warrs are just stupid...I generally just go the other way.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:46 am

Anecdote is anecdote, but a Blood DK was holding the DMF arena against 4 other people (one of them a healer.) This will also help against easily achieved OP "tanks" in low level BGs, since it'll be far more difficult to 1-shot someone with Avenger's Shield...
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:41 am

Time to learn to play Ret, I guess. :-( Damn. It was certainly fun while it lasted.
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