Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby tlitp » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:21 am

Allow me to expand on that :
  • The ilvl-equivalent Souldrinker/No'Kaled are almost identical. It doesn't really matter that NK isn't a Strength-based weapon, the proc is stronger than Souldrinker's. They end up neck to neck, both at 410 and 416. [see edit]
  • LFR Souldrinker is better than anything from T11.
  • Normal SD/NK (403) are better than anything from T12, except their ilvl 416 counterparts. Yes, better than all the ilvl 410 options.
  • Hand of Morchok is fairly unimpressive. It's worse than LFR Souldrinker, and heroic HoM is worse than normal SD/NK.
  • SD/NK scale better with hit/expertise than any other option. In other words, any serious parse hunter must a. get one of them, b. hard-cap expertise.

EDIT : An updated NK model puts it ahead of SD by at least 200 DPS (depending on hit/exp/priority queue).
Last edited by tlitp on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Jeremoot » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:25 am

tlitp wrote:Hand of Morchok is fairly unimpressive. It's worse than LFR Souldrinker...


Going by what Theck just posted in the Matlab thread, it's only 100 dps ahead of Hand of Morchok 939SoT. Really I'd say they're about equal, and it all depends on if you'd rather have 119 mastery or the proc.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby econ21 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:31 am

Yes, that was my reading of Theck's new results. I will use Souldrinker LFR if it drops, but given that I already have Hand of Morchok normal, I need not feel too aggrieved when the dps keep winning the rolls.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby tlitp » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:11 am

Apples and oranges ? Let's not pointlessly intertwine fundamentally different metrics. Output-wise, LFR Souldrinker is better than normal HoM. Moreover, the gap becomes larger than the aforementioned 100 when player's expertise isn't a significant factor (past softcap, or on trash).

Speaking of which, Theck (by extension, the matlabadin code) merely presents what's happening at a few specific points. That's intentional. It doesn't mean that one should extrapolate those results to the full spectrum.


EDIT : Proofreading what I've just written, I've realized that I may seem a tad grumpy. Well, I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that the original statement ("HoM is fairly unimpressive") was formulated having in mind more than comes out from the matlabadin thread.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby degre » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:18 am

tlitp wrote:Allow me to expand on that :
  • The ilvl-equivalent Souldrinker/No'Kaled are virtually identical. It doesn't really matter that NK isn't a Strength-based weapon, the proc is stronger than Souldrinker's. They end up neck to neck, both at 410 and 416.
  • LFR Souldrinker is better than anything from T11.
  • Normal SD/NK (403) are better than anything from T12, except their ilvl 416 counterparts. Yes, better than all the ilvl 410 options.
  • Hand of Morchok is fairly unimpressive. It's worse than LFR Souldrinker, and heroic HoM is worse than normal SD/NK.
  • SD/NK scale better with hit/expertise than any other option. In other words, any serious parse hunter must a. get one of them, b. hard-cap expertise.

Typo? Maybe you meant T12 and T13?
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Valour » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:25 am

The consensus thus far seems to be:

1. In terms of DPS output, Heroic Souldrinker is the best, followed by Normal Souldrinker. Normal Souldrinker > Heroic Hand of Morchok.

2. In terms of survivability, Heroic Hand of Morchok may provide extra stamina and mastery, however even assuming a perfect translation of extra mastery to stamina, the Normal Souldrinker would only have to proc once during a death event to match up to the stamina benefit of the Heroic Hand of Morchok. As a plus, some fights (i.e. Madness) give Souldrinker extra bang for its buck by increasing the amount healed by the proc.

Thus, it seems that it's safe to say that, all around, Heroic SD > Normal SD > Heroic HoM >= LFR SD

I'm currently using the Normal SD and I can't really see myself, given the current evidence, switching to anything until heroic SD. If anyone has further evidence that puts Hand of Mor'chok or any other weapon in a more favorable light, I'd be interested to see it.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby yappo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:34 am

Valour wrote:I'm currently using the Normal SD and I can't really see myself, given the current evidence, switching to anything until heroic SD. If anyone has further evidence that puts Hand of Mor'chok or any other weapon in a more favorable light, I'd be interested to see it.


Personal gear is personal. That said, Hand could theoretically (and after doing some athletic stunts with regemming) carry the mastery (and reforged avoidance) you need to cap CTC after swapping a mastery trinket to a stamina one. Situational, but still.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Phonic » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:30 pm

So even the recent Censure proc nerf doesn't affect the overall results of SD?
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby theckhd » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 am

The simulations take that into account. I hadn't posted a data set that modeled the proc before the hotfix. The internal build I had pre-hotfix had Souldrinker even further ahead.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby djlar » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:17 am

Does hand of Morchok drop at all?

Never seen it. Since the beginning of DS, on any raid, formal raid on 25, alt 10's, LFR's etc.. never ever seen it drop.

Drop rate that low?
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Cowmmunion » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:19 am

Small sample size, statistically. With a 9% drop rate, not seeing it on 20+ morchok kills isn't at all surprising. 9% drop rate and 20 kills = 15% chance of never seeing it.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:44 am

And it cannot drop in LFR as far as I know.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Cowmmunion » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:52 am

Correct. In LFR weapons only drop on Madness, IIRC.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Arawina » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:17 am

I have both LFR SD and heroic HoM. I've spent quite some time with simc and have come to the conclusion (supported by logs of our raid) that heroic HoM is the one to go for me with my current gear. Also the extra mastery allows me to free up one trinket slot which I can use for whatever trinket works best - be it a dps trinket for the easier bosses like morchok or ultra on heroic or stamina trinkets for the later fights. I'm also quite unimpressed by the healing SD does, more than 50% (sometimes over 70%) end up in useless overheal and for most fights WoG heals me for more and much more effectively. Never seen SD drop besides LFR so I can't say anything about the higher ilvl versions.
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Re: Souldrinker vs. Hand of Morchok

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:54 am

From what I've been reading, 1 step difference (LFR vs Norm, Norm vs Her) should make SD better than HoM. 2 steps (as you're mentioning above, LFR vs Her) should have the HoM come out ahead.
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