DS Heroic Progression Path

[Rhiannon]

OP should specify 10 or 25 man really, as 25 man Hagara's a bit of a joke while 10 man really isn't, for example.

[warden]

Yep, 25 man we went Mor-->Zon-->Hagara-->Yor-->Ultra

Most 10 mans (we have a couple really good ones on our server) went Mor-->Zon-->Yor-->Ultra-->Hagara or Mor-->Yor-->Zon...etc

[Brosterr]

The dps requirement per dps for 3-healing Ultraxion 10man is lower than the dps requirement per dps for 5-healing Ultraxion 25man. (37k vs 38.5k) 10/25 balance difference is fun!

Very relevant, thank you for adding this useful information to this thread. I am looking forward to hearing more from you on these forums in the future.

[Hrobertgar]

The dps requirement per dps for 3-healing Ultraxion 10man is lower than the dps requirement per dps for 5-healing Ultraxion 25man. (37k vs 38.5k) 10/25 balance difference is fun!

Keep in mind, a 25m raid is pretty much guaranteed to have full buffs, while few 10m raids get there. A modest amount of extra output per dps is not unreasonable.

[Kishandra]

I don't begrudge the relative difficulty of 10v25, just pointing out that 3-healing Ultraxion is perfectly viable and the requisite dps for doing so is what every 25 man guild has to go through already, counter to several claims to the contrary.

And while I can agree that some raid synergy is usually left by the wayside in a 10m, generally though, due to buff/debuff redundancy, if at any point the raid group is ever doing more than 5% lower than its fully maximized counterpart, you should probably be asking yourself, "why are there three rogues and three warlocks in my 10m raid?" (and surprisingly, even with that retarded comp, it's possible to cover every buff and debuff in the game aside from 3% damage).

Edit: wow, forgot hemo. I'm retarded.

[madmessias]

I don't begrudge the relative difficulty of 10v25, just pointing out that 3-healing Ultraxion is perfectly viable and the requisite dps for doing so is what every 25 man guild has to go through already, counter to several claims to the contrary.

And while I can agree that some raid synergy is usually left by the wayside in a 10m, generally though, due to buff/debuff redundancy, if at any point the raid group is ever doing more than 5% lower than its fully maximized counterpart, you should probably be asking yourself, "why are there three rogues and three warlocks in my 10m raid?" (and surprisingly, even with that retarded comp, it's possible to cover every buff and debuff in the game aside from 3% damage and 30% bleed).

It's as viable as fourhealing Yor'Sahj, it's not needed, and it will make the fight way harder.

Besides, 25m got way more DI, FM, tricks, etc
btw, it's 40.35k in 25m (counting the tanks as 1dps)
and it's 39.4k in 10m (counting two tanks aswell)

But in 25m you will have less tankdmg compared to 10m, and all aoe heals will be more effective, so you can have other healers dps for longer.
You will also have more effective raidcd's since they hit more people, and that will also ofc have healers able to dps longer..

And you will most likely not have all raidbuffs anyways so..

[rijn dael]

I wouldn't call ultraxion a dps check in 10 of the same magnitude as it must be in 25 - but I think 10 is really too small to properly have a real dps check - missing one raid buff can be enough that it is either undoable, or trivial, depending on your raid makeup - and 15-20man rosters in 10m aren't fun - tbqh, I would rather less buffs, or a 15m raidsize.

Our 3healer kill was just under enrage, and since then we have been doing ~5min kills (or 5m30s with some of our non-core's) with 2heal setups.


Back on topic, I would do them in the order they appear in the instance, with zonozz before yorsahj. The difficulty scales pretty well as you progress, unless you have hyperaware individuals that are incapable of doing decent dps.. but I haven't met a guild like that yet

[Forgrim]

there's no question, in my eyes, that 25m heroic ultraxion is harder than the 10man version just from the simple fact that when you 2 heal it, you can get 5 minute kills and don't have to go through that rough 1 minute of healer destruction. even 4 healing it on 25 man, and your no where near a 5 minute kill.

edit: unless you stack classes and throw those worthless hunters away

[Adornus]

there's no question, in my eyes, that 25m heroic ultraxion is harder than the 10man version just from the simple fact that when you 2 heal it, you can get 5 minute kills and don't have to go through that rough 1 minute of healer destruction. even 4 healing it on 25 man, and your no where near a 5 minute kill.

edit: unless you stack classes and throw those worthless hunters away

10m H Ultraxion is a joke compared to 25m
25m H Hagara is a joke compared to 10m

Poor hunters. They get left out because they can't get legendary and don't get the AP boost. Plus they're just behind in general.