DS Heroic Progression Path

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Astronomic » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:13 am

We got our 8/8 this week so next week we are going to start heroic morchok attempts. After him what is the most efficient progression path through heroics from easiest to hardest?"
You can have my gold for free, The mobs of elywnn forest are holding on to it.
User avatar
Astronomic
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Arathor

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Sundance » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:46 am

I´d recommend you to take the same path as normal. In other words Morchok --> Yor/Zon ---> Zon/Yor --> Hagara --> Ultrax ---> Warmaster ---> Spine ---> Madness. Hagara could be a bit easier than Zon'ozz and Yor have some annoying RNG(getting Red/Yellow phases over and over again). But other than that the difficulty seems to be paced 1-8.
Heímdall of <Helios> @ Argent Dawn - EU
User avatar
Sundance
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:16 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Belloc » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:12 am

Be ready to hit a brick wall on any boss after Morchok. Heroics require extreme levels of healing and DPS :P
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Astronomic » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:16 am

Ya ive looked at some of the fatboss 10m guides and they're doing quite a bit more dps then what we got
You can have my gold for free, The mobs of elywnn forest are holding on to it.
User avatar
Astronomic
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Arathor

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:38 am

Don't limit yourself to fatboss guides, there are other strategies out there that work and may not require the same level of dps they use. Specifically, the H-Yor strat of saving the Mana Voids seemed definitely superior. I haven't compared videos on all the heroic mode bosses yet, jsut keep in mind that there are always alternate ways to do things, that could make the dps/hps requirements easier or more difficult to achieve.
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Adornus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:03 am

For 10m, I'd recommend the following:

Morchok (4 healing makes it cake)
Yor'sahj (2 heal and save mana void tactic)
Ultraxion (if you have good DPS)
Zon'ozz (3 heal)
Ultraxion (if you have bad DPS)
Hagara
Blackhorn
Spine
Madness

We found Hagara and Zon'ozz much more strenous on everyone as a whole than Ultraxion. Honestly, Ultraxion felt really easy once you got the rotation of who was eating each Heroic Will, when to use each raid CD, and once DPS figured out Fading Light. Oh, and having a Holy Pally helps. You can give them red and blue, and it's pretty hard to fail provided they know how to play.
User avatar
Adornus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:12 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby madmessias » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:35 am

Adornus wrote:For 10m, I'd recommend the following:

Morchok (4 healing makes it cake)
Yor'sahj (2 heal and save mana void tactic)
Ultraxion (if you have good DPS)
Zon'ozz (3 heal)
Ultraxion (if you have bad DPS)
Hagara
Blackhorn
Spine
Madness

We found Hagara and Zon'ozz much more strenous on everyone as a whole than Ultraxion. Honestly, Ultraxion felt really easy once you got the rotation of who was eating each Heroic Will, when to use each raid CD, and once DPS figured out Fading Light. Oh, and having a Holy Pally helps. You can give them red and blue, and it's pretty hard to fail provided they know how to play.

I doubt anyone threehealed Blackhorn, and if you have bad dps you won't meet the enragetimer on Ultraxion with 3x healers so.. :p
Not even sure if anyone 3healed Ultraxion :p
edit: found one log of a 3heal ultraxion, they killed him at 06.04 and had a discpriest doing 12k dps and a restodruid 8k dps, so yea, seems tight. (They had 3x legendarys)
madmessias
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:45 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Juugimus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:57 pm

Adornus wrote:For 10m, I'd recommend the following:

Morchok (4 healing makes it cake)
Yor'sahj (2 heal and save mana void tactic)
Ultraxion (if you have good DPS)
Zon'ozz (3 heal)
Ultraxion (if you have bad DPS)
Hagara
Blackhorn
Spine
Madness

We found Hagara and Zon'ozz much more strenous on everyone as a whole than Ultraxion. Honestly, Ultraxion felt really easy once you got the rotation of who was eating each Heroic Will, when to use each raid CD, and once DPS figured out Fading Light. Oh, and having a Holy Pally helps. You can give them red and blue, and it's pretty hard to fail provided they know how to play.


I was going to ask about doing Ultraxion before Zon'ozz if your DPS was good. If I might ask, how much before enrage was your Yor'sahj kill to judge the DPS requirements for Ultraxion.
Image

Pallies do it in the Light
Juugimus
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 9:34 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby madmessias » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:11 pm

Juugimus wrote:
Adornus wrote:For 10m, I'd recommend the following:

Morchok (4 healing makes it cake)
Yor'sahj (2 heal and save mana void tactic)
Ultraxion (if you have good DPS)
Zon'ozz (3 heal)
Ultraxion (if you have bad DPS)
Hagara
Blackhorn
Spine
Madness

We found Hagara and Zon'ozz much more strenous on everyone as a whole than Ultraxion. Honestly, Ultraxion felt really easy once you got the rotation of who was eating each Heroic Will, when to use each raid CD, and once DPS figured out Fading Light. Oh, and having a Holy Pally helps. You can give them red and blue, and it's pretty hard to fail provided they know how to play.


I was going to ask about doing Ultraxion before Zon'ozz if your DPS was good. If I might ask, how much before enrage was your Yor'sahj kill to judge the DPS requirements for Ultraxion.

We did Ultraxion before Zon'Ozz, you can't really 3heal it though. Can't really compare dps on Yor'Sahj though, since it all depends on how many black phases you get and if your healers can dps etc. You can check what dps you have on normal ultraxion, you need around 250k dps to kill Ultraxion in about 5.35 or so, after that the damage get's really high.
madmessias
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:45 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Brosterr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:12 pm

Ultraxion is deffinitely easier than Zonozz, wipe count wise. Obviously if you cant beat his enrage its a different story. The Zonozz enrage is no joke, but theres more room to squeeze/find missing dps on that fight than there is on Ultra. As for the fight though, i think we had 30 something wipes on Zonozz, and within 5 pulls of Ultraxion we knew we had a kill any pull. I really dont think the dps check is all that hard either, meaning that a guild that is struggling with the enrage could do certain things to put them over the top. I also have a hard time believing any guild that can kill Yorsahj cant kill Ultra.

What Adornus said is right. I have yet to kill Hagara, 40 or so pulls in. Ive also seen some of the boat and i can say without a doubt they are both a huge step over the previous 4, with the boat seeming to be the harder of the two. The only flaw i see in his order is that i would guess that Madness is easier than Spine based on top kills and times.
Brosterr
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:29 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Adornus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Juugimus wrote:
Adornus wrote:For 10m, I'd recommend the following:

Morchok (4 healing makes it cake)
Yor'sahj (2 heal and save mana void tactic)
Ultraxion (if you have good DPS)
Zon'ozz (3 heal)
Ultraxion (if you have bad DPS)
Hagara
Blackhorn
Spine
Madness

We found Hagara and Zon'ozz much more strenous on everyone as a whole than Ultraxion. Honestly, Ultraxion felt really easy once you got the rotation of who was eating each Heroic Will, when to use each raid CD, and once DPS figured out Fading Light. Oh, and having a Holy Pally helps. You can give them red and blue, and it's pretty hard to fail provided they know how to play.


I was going to ask about doing Ultraxion before Zon'ozz if your DPS was good. If I might ask, how much before enrage was your Yor'sahj kill to judge the DPS requirements for Ultraxion.


Here is the log from our first Ultraxion kill (I think). Note, holidays really screw up raider attendance. This is evident in the absolutely terribad Elemental Shaman we have (normally not a raider). Even with her, we still managed to down it at 5:49. Note: if you have a good holy pally, the enrage is meaningless except for DPS. We still have yet for anyone to hit the time loop if our holy pally (me) enters blue with 25% mana, wings, t13 2pc, and DF available. Not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but if you have a decent holy pally, you can negate a lot of the high HPS requirements towards the end of the fight.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/adx7tmgh ... 854&e=6204

In contrast, here is a standar H Yor'sahj kill for us (one of our earlier ones).

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vp2fwcdk ... 277&e=2827
User avatar
Adornus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:12 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Juugimus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:31 pm

madmessias wrote:
Juugimus wrote:I was going to ask about doing Ultraxion before Zon'ozz if your DPS was good. If I might ask, how much before enrage was your Yor'sahj kill to judge the DPS requirements for Ultraxion.

We did Ultraxion before Zon'Ozz, you can't really 3heal it though. Can't really compare dps on Yor'Sahj though, since it all depends on how many black phases you get and if your healers can dps etc. You can check what dps you have on normal ultraxion, you need around 250k dps to kill Ultraxion in about 5.35 or so, after that the damage get's really high.



Thx
Image

Pallies do it in the Light
Juugimus
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 9:34 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Adornus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:36 pm

Brosterr wrote:What Adornus said is right. I have yet to kill Hagara, 40 or so pulls in. Ive also seen some of the boat and i can say without a doubt they are both a huge step over the previous 4, with the boat seeming to be the harder of the two. The only flaw i see in his order is that i would guess that Madness is easier than Spine based on top kills and times.


Hagara and Boat are much "harder" in a wipe count sense to get down the fight. It took us around 60 wipes for Hagara. A lot of that was finding the right strat. I posted our specific strat and things we learned in that thread, but the short of it was 3 healers, stand in the bubble for entire ice phase and heal through it. Hagara also has a lot more of an "awareness" check with handling the missles and Shatter Ice.

As far as ship, it's a lot like Hagara (I have not downed ship yet though). There are a ton of awareness checks. People need to know who is around them, who has the debuffs, if you have the debuff, who will be soaking, and audibles that need to be made. At least with Haraga, you get a sense of exact positionings. I'm guessing we'll get there with ship, but it seems like a ton more rotation and audibles.

madmessias wrote:We did Ultraxion before Zon'Ozz, you can't really 3heal it though. Can't really compare dps on Yor'Sahj though, since it all depends on how many black phases you get and if your healers can dps etc. You can check what dps you have on normal ultraxion, you need around 250k dps to kill Ultraxion in about 5.35 or so, after that the damage get's really high.


Heck, there is debate on solo healing Heroic Ultraxion in our guild. Two healing is more than enough.
User avatar
Adornus
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:12 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Juugimus » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:56 pm

Adornus wrote:
Here is the log from our first Ultraxion kill (I think). Note, holidays really screw up raider attendance. This is evident in the absolutely terribad Elemental Shaman we have (normally not a raider). Even with her, we still managed to down it at 5:49. Note: if you have a good holy pally, the enrage is meaningless except for DPS. We still have yet for anyone to hit the time loop if our holy pally (me) enters blue with 25% mana, wings, t13 2pc, and DF available. Not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but if you have a decent holy pally, you can negate a lot of the high HPS requirements towards the end of the fight.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/adx7tmgh ... 854&e=6204

In contrast, here is a standar H Yor'sahj kill for us (one of our earlier ones).

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vp2fwcdk ... 277&e=2827


Thanks for this. Really helpful.
Image

Pallies do it in the Light
Juugimus
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 9:34 am

Re: DS Heroic Progression Path

Postby Kishandra » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:44 am

madmessias wrote:I doubt anyone threehealed Blackhorn, and if you have bad dps you won't meet the enragetimer on Ultraxion with 3x healers so.. :p
Not even sure if anyone 3healed Ultraxion :p
edit: found one log of a 3heal ultraxion, they killed him at 06.04 and had a discpriest doing 12k dps and a restodruid 8k dps, so yea, seems tight. (They had 3x legendarys)


The dps requirement per dps for 3-healing Ultraxion 10man is lower than the dps requirement per dps for 5-healing Ultraxion 25man. (37k vs 38.5k) 10/25 balance difference is fun!
Kishandra
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:29 pm

Next

Return to Cataclysm Raids (T11+)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests