World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Teranoid » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:04 pm

What amuses me is how people cry foul about homogenizing tank classes and then when their class is the one perceived as having the shortcomings it's a crime.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Shoju » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:58 pm

mavfin wrote:
Shoju wrote:We make every other tank look silly at big burst hits that we can time. This list doesn't even include Bone Shield, or Icebound Fortitude, or Blood Shield / Death Strike.


And, yeah, that's why they're changing it in MoP. With that list, we're basically back to 3-drake Sartharion times with DKs and time-able big hits. And yes, right now you do need it to make up for lack of passives.


Completely agree. I hate to say it, because some of the changes they are making are rather unfortunate. the biggest problem I have is that they are currently slating outbreak to be a talent, and all the signs still point to disease = debuff mantra, though.... with some debuffs currently missing, who knows what they are thinking.

But back to current content, Dk's are good. They feel strong. I feel like a more 'sturdy' tank than I have in a long time, including my time in T11 on my paladin.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Dantriges » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:09 pm

You could cry foul because it was rather obvious to nearly everyone and the same happened before.

Like T7. Oh Dks are weak, let´s power them up. Hups their CDs are too many in a scenario with predictable burst and the dominate the tanking scene for quite some time.
Oh and their IT fix was rather annyoing. Not enough burst aggro, let´s increase the IT threat modifier. That was rather cheaply executed.

The class swings between "too complicated" and "squishy" to "Hi I am the invincible juggernaut" since its creation.

Wonder if our Shaolin ripoffs friends will Kiai roll from one extreme to the other for the next two expansions, too.

But ok, it´s not like other classes don´t have their performance changing quite a lot. But I got the feeling that DKs swing a lot between last and number one with nothing in between.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Epimer » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:29 am

Dantriges wrote:Not enough burst aggro, let´s increase the IT threat modifier. That was rather cheaply executed.


I think that was the most hilariously crude buff I've witnessed in the time I've been playing.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Qeeze » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:26 am

Rhiannon wrote:
2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:I'm going to point out #1 that of course warriors are not even worth mentioning because to me they are just the most meh tanks. Always have been since BC imo ( I could go on and on about crushing and different encounters, but I'll refrain).


Saying this just shows incredible ignorance on your part of warrior mechanics.


Rhiannon is correct. A good warrior tank is God like if well played, and has been since the game was released.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Xarlanther » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:33 am

I can understand that DK's are stronger at the moment then the other tanks, but they also mention druids.
I have a hard time figuring out why, what do druids bring that the shield tanks don't have?
Is it just the 4pc? They bring a raid wide movement speed buff which is unique, but that is it really.
Tank mastery for bears only effects physical damage and is debatebly worse then block capping, they don't really have anything against heavy magic damage or spike damage.

I tank with both a pally and druid and I feel paladins still bring alot more then druids.

cheers,
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Era » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:39 am

Pfft, please. Can other tanks Flash Heal? I think not.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Worldie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:01 am

Xarlanther wrote:I can understand that DK's are stronger at the moment then the other tanks, but they also mention druids.
I have a hard time figuring out why, what do druids bring that the shield tanks don't have?
Is it just the 4pc? They bring a raid wide movement speed buff which is unique, but that is it really.
Tank mastery for bears only effects physical damage and is debatebly worse then block capping, they don't really have anything against heavy magic damage or spike damage.

I tank with both a pally and druid and I feel paladins still bring alot more then druids.

cheers,

Druids (and DKs) have lot more HP than shield tanks, and lose virtually nothing by using double stam if they want.
High damage spikes are better faced with meatwalls.
I'm mainly looking at mechanics like Impale, Void Bolt, Focused Assault, et similars, for which block cap does absolutely nothing.
It's WotLK all over again.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby degre » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:17 am

Worldie wrote:
Xarlanther wrote:I can understand that DK's are stronger at the moment then the other tanks, but they also mention druids.
I have a hard time figuring out why, what do druids bring that the shield tanks don't have?
Is it just the 4pc? They bring a raid wide movement speed buff which is unique, but that is it really.
Tank mastery for bears only effects physical damage and is debatebly worse then block capping, they don't really have anything against heavy magic damage or spike damage.

I tank with both a pally and druid and I feel paladins still bring alot more then druids.

cheers,

Druids (and DKs) have lot more HP than shield tanks, and lose virtually nothing by using double stam if they want.
High damage spikes are better faced with meatwalls.
I'm mainly looking at mechanics like Impale, Void Bolt, Focused Assault, et similars, for which block cap does absolutely nothing.
It's WotLK all over again.

This.

To be fair I already went through FLHC without being block capped and I survived all the same, so I've already started trading CTC for stamina in the form of the second trinket and I'll be dealing with a full regemming after the festivities, couldn't be arsed yesterday as I'm flying away tomorrow until the new year, gear can wait. At a glance simply regemming I'll drop down to 97.something% with a gain of about 9k stamina, with as much gained from the trinket, I'd rather be not CTC capped but be able to soak more incoming damage when required, and the loss of CTC anyway is not permanent as there moment when I'm capped anyway due to the trinkets proccing.

Also, more stamina means higher procs from the Souldrinker.

I guess in between Souldrinker and all the mastery proccing trinkets Blizzard is definitely telling us that full mastery until cap is not the way to go.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Dantriges » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:30 am

Worldie wrote:It's WotLK all over again.


Yeah hope it´s over faster then the long night of ICC.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:16 am

Are DK's really double stamming it in H:DS? That just seems... odd. I mean, I guess unless they are pairing

This with This I can't imagine 2 other stamina trinkets at that level of progression that are going to give you as much "bang for the buck" in saving your butt type effects as those two.
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Kihra » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:02 am

Stars got the world 2nd Spine kill, and they used a prot paladin (Pennies). We're fine. I think Kin Raiders benching their paladin may have had to do with their need for the better raid-wide CDs from the other tank classes than with anything really wrong with prot paladins themselves.

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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Xarlanther » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:08 am

Paragon usually uses a prot paladin, but it does seem they swapped him out for Spine also.
All other heroics they still use a prot paladin though, don't think it's the end of the world just yet.

cheers,
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:41 am

Dantriges wrote:Wonder if our Shaolin ripoffs friends will Kiai roll from one extreme to the other for the next two expansions, too.



Would Blizz have it any other way?...
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Re: World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

Postby Worldie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:29 am

Shoju wrote:Are DK's really double stamming it in H:DS? That just seems... odd. I mean, I guess unless they are pairing

This with This I can't imagine 2 other stamina trinkets at that level of progression that are going to give you as much "bang for the buck" in saving your butt type effects as those two.

I think they aren't, but I'm no great expert for it.

Mastery / Sta seembs to be the most common combo as far as i know.
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