World First Guild says Prot Paladin Weak?

[2Cute2BeStr8]

Q: For this raid, class specs seemed very critical. Can you give us a word on that?

A: For tanks, Paladins were far inferior to DKs and Druids. Thus, prot Paladins were benched. Also, enhancement Shamans and Hunters had to be benched for Madness encounter as the pets weren't attacking tendons. For healers, holy Paladins and resto Shamans were good. Other healing classes had to be on stand-by. And for caster DPS, boomkins had to be benched most of the time. I want to thank all of them for sticking around for the entire duration of the fights.

I'm going to point out #1 that of course warriors are not even worth mentioning because to me they are just the most meh tanks. Always have been since BC imo ( I could go on and on about crushing and different encounters, but I'll refrain).

But to say that paladins were the far inferior tank? It just blows my mind. Is it because of 4 pieces or something? Like how could a paladin tank ever be considered inferior? There will be no way that the other tanks have better cool downs than us. Is it just their abilities to pick up adds? D&D is definitely nicer and swipe hits like everything I suppose definitely makers for better add control than ticking consecrate that makes us go OOM with one use. I mean what are paladins even complaining about this patch if anything? I'm one of those guys who are saying we probably need nerfed and these guys are saying we're inferior? Maybe they mean damage taking wise?

I've always considered druids to just take spike damage, and DK's... so is it their mastery that is making them better right now? I've always taken consistent damage its what makes me easier to heal I feel like as opposed to CD's that just increase our maximum health and need to have the healers sink more mana into you. Like I could almost eat two impales on every platform of madness, whereas a DK can't because all they have is increased HP type CD's/ and one damage reduction Ice Bound.

I don't know we get soul drinker which is OP, our absorb from judgment is just a nice perk, and I most certainly need to make better use of my WoG shield. I'm not in heroic modes but if I have the option of a second tank do you know what I want it to be? Thats right a protection paladin....

I could go over all the MASSIVE BENEFITS on almost every fight. Hand of Sac alone makes two protection paladins OP. For almost 50 percent of the fight plus you can be taking 20-30 percent reduced damage just from those buffs ( pending on the fight tank switches). Like ultraxion I'd hand of sac them when they were tanking and they'd do same for me. Plus you raid wall when the other tank is tanking not when you are tanking.. since you don't get the benefit of DG. Holy radiance used to be another one of the reasons I always loved two prot palies ( pop wings + Holy Radiance=win).

What could make us inferior?

I haven't even seen much QQ about buff paladin tanks or anything like that? The biggest complaint I've still had is add control since doing sarth 3d 10 M. I couldn't do whelps because of consecrate. D&D is just superior and so is swipe and tclap for that matter.

Is it AMS that has made DK's superior ( for tetanus) and maybe ooze boss? I will admit I always do love feral druids esp in 10 man to have has a co-tank because they give 5 percent crit, sunder armor, innervate/tranq, and you don't share loot. So that makes it a nice group comp thing, but I still see 2 prot paladins as being better. Most warriors never even specced into that AWESOME intervene talent safeguard.

[halabar]

Problem with paladin tanks are that we dont scale with gear, like at all.
We want block cap, after that, whatever you do, doesnt change anything.
Running with 378 gear or full 410 gear, you are going to be block capped in both scenarios, differance will be like 10k hp and maybe a bit more dps stats, thats it.
While DKs, druids and especially warriors only get stronger and stronger the more gear they have, and warriors are pretty insane currently.

[melisandyr]

Well, it's important to put this into the context of only having four tanks, so someone has to come last. It's just our time to be bottom of the pile.

Halabar's right - it's down to not having anything that scales at the moment, for our primary stat in particular. Word of glory, holy shield, ShoR, none of these gain in scale the way death strike does, or a DK's absorb bubble.

I think we'll have to live with it for Cataclysm's conclusion, but I really hope we get something that is exciting in terms of paladin tanking for Pandaclysm that does scale. I guess a WoG without cooldown has the potential for this, along with duration of the ShoR mini block.

[Milius]

That may be true we don't scale much wit gear, But I'd hardly say Prot Paladins are the weakest of the four atm.

[Rhiannon]

I'm going to point out #1 that of course warriors are not even worth mentioning because to me they are just the most meh tanks. Always have been since BC imo ( I could go on and on about crushing and different encounters, but I'll refrain).

Saying this just shows incredible ignorance on your part of warrior mechanics.

[Worldie]

Big detail about last two fights, tank-killer damage is not blockable.

[Pizbit]

I'm going to point out #1 that of course warriors are not even worth mentioning because to me they are just the most meh tanks. Always have been since BC imo ( I could go on and on about crushing and different encounters, but I'll refrain).

Saying this just shows incredible ignorance on your part of warrior mechanics.

If they're referring to crushing blows as I interpret them to be, well uh, they're more than a few years behind with tanking in general.

[2Cute2BeStr8]

I'm going to point out #1 that of course warriors are not even worth mentioning because to me they are just the most meh tanks. Always have been since BC imo ( I could go on and on about crushing and different encounters, but I'll refrain).

Saying this just shows incredible ignorance on your part of warrior mechanics.

Just so you know I realize warriors can be block capped now. I just meant since BC when they were only uncrushable once every 30 or so seconds. Which is why it was better to use a high HP tank ( i.e druid) on bosses that didn't crush like archimonde/mother/ and morogrim tidewalker ( morogrim because no matter what the tank was going to get crushed so myswell have extra hp)

Spell reflect was only thing that made warriors 100 percent needed. Prot paladins were very uncrsuhable for a long time which made us take signifigantly less spike damage. lol terron gorefiend just roflestomped the warrior. Let me dispel immolation and tank the guy and take less spike damage.

Wrath- I'd say was all about the paly tank i mean its a bunch of paladins against undead things and we got a free life, but I guess that doesn' t really go into what made warriors bad. Oh I know sarth 3d 10 man hardest content at the start of that expansion FERAL DRUID in frost resist gear, DK on whelps prot pali on drakes if anything for the extra buff alone/aura of being a a pali). In BC/Wrath we still offered sanctuary which could be nice. I believe feral druids and DK's loved our buff gave them rage and runic power.

Cata- Why would you want a warrior again? I'm not saying they can't do things, but their dps is lower against things that aren't hitting a lot of the time like ooze/madness/ultraxion, and while I'm not 100 percent familair with their CD's I know they have a lot less than us as far as what can help the raid/save ppl. Even our holy shield is a 20 percent damage reduction for 10 seconds every 30 seconds in a physical fight ( speaking of which I'm a nub and need to use holy shield more). They mentioned scaling, warriors would have same poor scaling as us, with none of the perks of being a paladin.

[Dantriges]

Reminds me of the saying in Battlestar Galactica. What happens now, has happened before or so.

So DKs are now the best tank after a round of being weak? Yeah take the "best tank during the whole of the expansion." Who is interested in being best tank when the thing is close to conclusion.

Well, not sure if you can take the statement of the best guild as the Word of God. Well, in BC, if we would follow the words of Kungen, we would have rerolled warrior by now.

Not even sure if our weaker scaling would actually affect progresion. How many pieces of gear did the tanks get?

Oh the tank killer damage is unblockable. Some gimmick to throw a bone at the DKs?

Just silly.

[Teranoid]

Christ you people are worse than the shaman community after H Rag. "ZOMG THEY DIDN'T TAKE ANY SHAMANS FIX US BLIZZ"

You should seriously edit that first line out because noone will take what you have to say seriously when you preface it with "let me start off by saying this class is dumb"

Edit:

I'm not in heroic modes but if I have the option of a second tank do you know what I want it to be? Thats right a protection paladin....

So you're basically passing judgement on someone who is more progressed than you offering their knowledge on what got them a world first kill because "boo hoo they didn't use paladin tanks". Guess what I'm going to clue you in on something. What tanking classes you bring in normals 99.999% do not matter.

[Lieris]

That may be true we don't scale much wit gear, But I'd hardly say Prot Paladins are the weakest of the four atm.

Well we are and have been since Firelands heroic farming. With Dragon Soul gear the other tanks just pull further away and there are tank killer abilities that make block meaningless. It's a double whammy of suck.

It's not a problem for 99% of guilds out there but for the ruthless world first chasers, the protection paladin belongs on the bench.

[Epimer]

Even our holy shield is a 20 percent damage reduction for 10 seconds every 30 seconds in a physical fight ( speaking of which I'm a nub and need to use holy shield more). They mentioned scaling, warriors would have same poor scaling as us, with none of the perks of being a paladin.

Saying this just shows incredible ignorance on your part of warrior mechanics.

[Epimer]

Sorry, I was going to post more but my queue popped (on my warrior, of all toons).

Shield Block converts Mastery above the block cap into more Critical Block, so I'm really surprised you feel so strongly about something you seem to know so little about. That alone makes Prot Warrior scaling immensely better than Paladin Mastery. Shield Block is also on a 30 second cooldown, and can be used as a 20% magic reduction cooldown.

I'll be speaking from a position of ignorance myself here, but I have a feeling (only a feeling, I genuinely don't know) that the 2pc Revenge absorb is worth more than the equivalent Judgement absorb.

There have been times in previous tiers when I'd have given my shiny, holy left nut for Heroic Leap, Intercept and Intervene.

EDIT: I've phrased the Critical Block comment in an unclear way. It dun maek Warrior Mastery scaling ded gud. Also, Vigilance makes me green with envy.

[Flex]

Big detail about last two fights, tank-killer damage is not blockable.

Doesn't this end the thread?

[Shoju]

I wont comment on what class is best or worse right now, but if we are talking about unblockable killer damage, we are normally (and I say normally because there are cases it isn't) magic damage.

I don't know enough about my druid to say much, but I personally feel that while on my DK I can handle magic damage, and then magic damage followed by melee damage a LOT better than other tanks.

It wouldn't surprise me that DK's are faring well on the last two heroic fights if there are large "big boom" type magic effects.