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[10] Warmaster Ship

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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Xarlanther » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:58 am

We killed it with 3 healers, 2 might be doable but wasn't needed for us.

We made sure everyone was spread out to take the small swirly and made it a priority for the healers.
We marked both sided of the ship so we had all ranged focus firing down 1 drake at the time, drakes were always the nr1 prio for our 3 ranged.
The sooner they go down the less swirlys you have.
If a drake gets pulled to the ship it has to be killed, if it flys off before getting killed you lack the dps to "safely" do this encounter.
The 2 melee were focussing down 1 of the melee adds, as soon as it was dead we tank swapped so stacks on the tanks remained low.

Like others already mentioned, it is easy to make a macro for the sapper. If you go with a DK tank have him use a CoI macro as his range is much larger then our stun.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby agetro » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:21 am

My guild can't seem to get through the first phase without the boat going BOOM! Can anyone read our log and see what we can improve?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rtfh ... 79&e=10524

We had tried different strats.

One tank take both adds while 3 healing, and alternating both adds between tanks while the OT was trying to soak the barrages, if we could get to them.

Went to 2 healing it with a tank on each add, but people kept getting hit by the adds' charges.

Finally, on our best and last attempt we just all stacked up on the adds. 2 healed, 1 tank on each add on top of each other.

The boat just takes too much damage and we are hitting all the onslaughts and killing the sappers until the last wave where we'll have a sapper WITH the onslaught and we can't get both... BOOM!

Ranged were focusing one drake at a time instead of split. And meleers were going after the mob with the frontal conal attack. He was usually dead before the onslaught so the tank was able to move into it for soak. When sapper spawned we were all on it.

Prot Pally
Blood DK

Holy Priest(SPriest)
Holy Priest
Resto Druid

Arc Mage
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Thanks much!
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Winkle » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:59 am

If the ship's taking to much damage you just have to catch more of the small attacks. 3 melee/2 ranged isn't a great set-up since you really need to focus down the drakes. Melee can attack the drakes once they're harpooned though.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Belloc » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:26 am

Agetro:

One thing I'd like to note: You can always get the sappers. Sappers tend to run to the middle of the boat, so you should be able to reveal it with some AOE and then stun it until the onslaught is over.

Are you tanking the adds next to a drake for extra cleave damage?

Finally, onslaughts and barrages:

It looks like most of the barrages are being completely ignored by your raid. Every single person in the raid, with enough health, should be ready and willing to move to the nearest barrage. Those failings are probably the biggest part of why your ship is dying.

You're having a lot of occasions where people are not getting into the onslaught and it's getting the other people killed. Always have 9 people in the onslaught.

Here is a list of problems that need to be fixed in order to succeed:

Divine Guardian should be used on every attempt. It was used on less than half, by my estimate. If you're good at paying attention to health totals/damage going out, use it when it would be most beneficial. Otherwise, just pick an onslaught and always use it on that one.

Your raiders aren't always soaking onslaughts. You should always have 9 people in an onslaught -- 10 if you can do so without getting people cleaved (which is annoying enough that you shouldn't worry about the 10th).

Your healers aren't soaking barrages. Everyone should be doing this when possible.

Allana, Antimonious, and Andas are not soaking (enough) barrages, either. Everyone should be doing this when possible.

Unless I'm missing something, your druid healer did not use tranquility a single time over all of your wipes. Tranquility should be used just as you would use Divine Guardian -- start it shortly before the onslaught hits so that people will get topped off and then it will bring them back up after the damage is dealt.


In short: Your healers and some of your DPS suck at barrages. Tanks could probably eat more, too. That's why your ship is dying. You're not using raid cooldowns effectively (if at all) and that's why your raid is dying. Your raiders aren't always helping with onslaughts, which is also why your raid is dying.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby agetro » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:35 am

Thanks Belloc. Yea we were doing different methods and the one thing that kept gimping us was the fact people couldn't move for the Charge that the melee adds do, so we just all stacked up on them which prevented them from doing any charges at all. I was thinking about having 1 tank take both melee adds, and the other tank soak the barrages but they were all over the place and I couldn't really get to them

I'm thinking we're just going to have to keep trying spread out throughout the whole boat and hopefully people will look at their screen and learn to strafe. You are correct proper raid cooldowns weren't used, we were mainly having issues with getting the adds dead before the next wave until the last few attempts when we were stacked.

Thanks for the tips. We had let 1 onslaught go through to test the damage of it and see if we could get to the end of the phase but the barrages were getting us low. I know our DK wasn't Death Gripping either, I've posted a new strategy with these ideas implemented and I thank you again for your advice.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:39 am

Also note that Barrages are spawned by the drakes. Your mages should be using some CDs on the first Drake to blast it down quick. One of my raids has 3 ranged and the drakes go down quick, my other raid has 2 ranged, and like yours it is a little more of a struggle. Ranged classes can also help soak Barrages if needed, but get 1 drake down ASAP.

As far as Onslaughts, ppl can use their personal survival CDs to help reduce dmg, but there should always be 7+ people in every one. Glyphed DivProt, Feint, are all fine CDs for your melee. As far as Sapper/Onslaught combos, pop a Raid CD (Anti-Magic Shell, DivGuard, Barrier, etc) to help with Onslaught and designate 1 and only 1 person to use a targeting macro to stun the Sapper (this person may have trouble making it back into the Onslaught which is why the Raid CD helps), this is best done by standing near his spawn point and spamming the macro to target him as he leaves the obscuring cloud as he may get out of range otherwise. Also, the Sappers ARE deathgrippable, they should NOT be an issue for your Raid composition.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby agetro » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:44 am

Do all 6 drakes need to be killed for Phase 2 to start? Or can we just focus on killing 1 drake per spawn then focus on the melee adds?
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Winkle » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:22 am

agetro wrote:Do all 6 drakes need to be killed for Phase 2 to start? Or can we just focus on killing 1 drake per spawn then focus on the melee adds?


The drakes damage the boat, the melee adds don't, focus down the drakes 1st.

Also why are you so concerned with charge? The healers must be really slacking if people are dieing to charge since it does 100k on normal before mitigation (physical so mitigated by armor).
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Belloc » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:27 am

Also, yes, the drakes have to die to trigger the second phase.

I agree with what Winkle said about the charges -- they shouldn't be fatal if the healers are capable.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Juugimus » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:29 am

We had problems with ship deaths too until I told our ranged to step up and nuke down the drakes. Drakes dying too slowly and you'll be overrun by barrages.

Kill the drakes faster.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:19 am

Agetro,

Also, a word on ph2.

When the boss spawns, Goriona will move to the forward-right side of the ship and spit shadow circles until her health is lowered. Use Hero here and have the Mages (and anyone else who has meaningfull ranged attacks; priest maybe?) give it EVERYTHING they've got, you'll need it with only 2-2.5 ranged. Make certain the melee/tanks know to basically 'pick their noses' until goriona is run off. The boss does more dmg as his health drops, and between Goriona circles, boss yell/interupts, and all its a lot on the healers until Gorinoa runs off.

I would also suggest tanking the boss close to where he lands, with all non-ranged stacked on the opposite side of the ship from the ranged, to help draw the boss' abilities away from the ranged so as to minimize mage/ranged movement.

Once Goriona runs away the #1 risk is not the Break Armor debuff, it is actually the boss' yell/interupt that preceds his other ability. In addition to the raid-wide AoE dmg, any cast (say a healer) casting when his yell goes off gets interupted for like 4-6 secs or something, that is when your tanks are in trouble. I have not seen a timer for it in my DBM, it seems to precede his ground ability though.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby agetro » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:21 am

Winkle wrote:
agetro wrote:Do all 6 drakes need to be killed for Phase 2 to start? Or can we just focus on killing 1 drake per spawn then focus on the melee adds?


The drakes damage the boat, the melee adds don't, focus down the drakes 1st.

Also why are you so concerned with charge? The healers must be really slacking if people are dieing to charge since it does 100k on normal before mitigation (physical so mitigated by armor).



Its mainly when they get double charged. Like I said people aren't moving out of the path of the charge either. To give you an idea on our raids situational awareness, it took us a month before downing shannox. I'm thinking this may be our issue too, but during that time we'll gear up from the previous bosses giving us a bit more dps, survivability, healing overall, making it easier.

Hrobertgar wrote:Agetro,

Also, a word on ph2.

When the boss spawns, Goriona will move to the forward-right side of the ship and spit shadow circles until her health is lowered. Use Hero here and have the Mages (and anyone else who has meaningfull ranged attacks; priest maybe?) give it EVERYTHING they've got, you'll need it with only 2-2.5 ranged. Make certain the melee/tanks know to basically 'pick their noses' until goriona is run off. The boss does more dmg as his health drops, and between Goriona circles, boss yell/interupts, and all its a lot on the healers until Gorinoa runs off.

I would also suggest tanking the boss close to where he lands, with all non-ranged stacked on the opposite side of the ship from the ranged, to help draw the boss' abilities away from the ranged so as to minimize mage/ranged movement.

Once Goriona runs away the #1 risk is not the Break Armor debuff, it is actually the boss' yell/interupt that preceds his other ability. In addition to the raid-wide AoE dmg, any cast (say a healer) casting when his yell goes off gets interupted for like 4-6 secs or something, that is when your tanks are in trouble. I have not seen a timer for it in my DBM, it seems to precede his ground ability though.


I read about that too, melee DPS just hang out til the drake leaves cuz of Vengeance. We may need to just trade a melee dps for a ranged if we have one available to make things easier.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:31 pm

Hrobertgar wrote:Once Goriona runs away the #1 risk is not the Break Armor debuff, it is actually the boss' yell/interupt that preceds his other ability. In addition to the raid-wide AoE dmg, any cast (say a healer) casting when his yell goes off gets interupted for like 4-6 secs or something, that is when your tanks are in trouble. I have not seen a timer for it in my DBM, it seems to precede his ground ability though.

It only interrupts within 10 yards.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby Cowmmunion » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:05 pm

agetro wrote:My guild can't seem to get through the first phase without the boat going BOOM! Can anyone read our log and see what we can improve?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rtfh ... 79&e=10524

We had tried different strats.

One tank take both adds while 3 healing, and alternating both adds between tanks while the OT was trying to soak the barrages, if we could get to them.

Went to 2 healing it with a tank on each add, but people kept getting hit by the adds' charges.

Finally, on our best and last attempt we just all stacked up on the adds. 2 healed, 1 tank on each add on top of each other.

The boat just takes too much damage and we are hitting all the onslaughts and killing the sappers until the last wave where we'll have a sapper WITH the onslaught and we can't get both... BOOM!

Ranged were focusing one drake at a time instead of split. And meleers were going after the mob with the frontal conal attack. He was usually dead before the onslaught so the tank was able to move into it for soak. When sapper spawned we were all on it.

Prot Pally
Blood DK

Holy Priest(SPriest)
Holy Priest
Resto Druid

Arc Mage
Arc Mage
Asn Rogue
Com Rogue
Ret Pally

Thanks much!


It's really a fight that is simply a test of raid-awareness. Looking at your logs, in general ~85% of the barrage damage was hitting the skyfire. We had a really tough time with him (41 wipes), but on our worst night, 67% of the barrages hit. On our kill tuesday, ~58% hit the skyfire, which was still (IMO) pretty bad. On your longest attempt, 93% and 83% of the barrage damage hit the skyfire.

Raid comp is a big issue. The fight is far easier with 4 ranged, 2 melee, 2 healers.

The three big things you need to do with your raid comp(and I think you know all of this):
1) Avoid charges. With 3 healers, shouldn't be an issue if you take a lot of them though.
2) Get the last sapper that spawns with a twilight onslaught. With 2 ranged, you really need RNG to be in your favor - or can you have the DK save his death grip and pull the sapper into the onslaught for your melee?
3) Split the ship into zones for the barrages. Tank the adds near the door the sappers try to go in, have the melee soak the barrages near that area, and then the healers + 2 ranged get the other side of the ship. The Melee will near where the sapper tries to go, and the ranged can hit him from anywhere. The ranged and the healers really need to make a very focused attempt to soak these - you can't expect the melee to be that great at it. The three melee + 2 tanks can cover *maybe* the third of the ship nearest the door without losing too much DPS.

When you get to phase 2, you'll be having issues with the drake, with only 2 ranged. She'll be around for a long time. If you tank the boss near the back stairs (opposite from the door the sappers try to go into), with the tanks as far back inbetween them as possible, the fire from Goriana will not land near the boss, allowing the melee to stay on him. The ranged and the healers will need to avoid the shockwave - which will be your biggest issue, from what you say about raid awareness. This will be a far bigger issue for you than the tank debuff (with 3 healers).

Edit: With 3 healers, don't have your melee sit on their butt while Goriana is still up. The longer the fight goes on, the more stuff your raid-awareness challenged ranged and healers have to avoid. Shockwave becomes pretty wide as it gets away from the boss - people need to be on their toes. Most people (I think) 2 heal the fight, at which point the last 30% of their boss can be a challenge, healing wise. With 3 healers you should be able to take the damage no problem.

Edit 2: On your longest attempt (the last one) there were 21 twilight barrages. Your raid got to 7 of them, and 14 hit. Gak.
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Re: [10] Warmaster Ship

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:00 pm

For some reason my DBM doesn't have a timer for devastate. Do I need a different boss mod for that I've heard of people using big wigs, and I'm kind of a creature of habit and prefer DBM? I have most up to date version of DBM.

It would really help when popping CD's.
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