A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:54 am

Thanks a lot Xenix. Since the ICD on Grand Crusader is definitely less than 3 seconds, we can assume that was an implementation bug that was fixed. An ICD less than 3 seconds would be pointless, and functionally indistinguishable from no ICD at all.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Xenix » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:55 am

tlitp wrote:Thanks for the assistance, Xenix. The only high-prio issue still on the table is the JotJ checkup (seal handling/triggering dynamic effects).


With regards to JotJ triggering seals, here's a quick set of data:

- 19x judgements w/ SoI: JotJ did not trigger any extra procs
- 2x judgements w/ SoR: JotJ did not trigger any extra procs
- 9x judgements w/ SoT: No extra Censure/SoT procs, judgement stacks SoT (split here)

Also, for comparison I did the SoT as holy and it looked exactly the same
- 8x judgements w/ SoI and no JotJ: No extra Censure/SoT procs, judgement stacks SoT

As with the Exorcism test, when I judged at 1-4 stacks, in addition to Censure stacking, I had a SoT proc that seemed to be 3% weapon damage per stack (which comes out to 15% when it's fully stacked), rather than it only proc'ing weapon damage at a 5-stack like the tooltip says.

Edit: Also, re-ran the Exorcism test to check the behavior of Censure. This time, the average time between ticks was exactly what it should have been given my haste, but the reported individual tick time could be +/- 0.4 seconds. It triggers SoT, including the weapon damage as it stacks from 1-4 like judgement, but the Censure behavior is just bad combat log timestamping imo. Data set here.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Sat May 07, 2011 10:13 am

Requesting two PTR data sets.

  1. Prot/Ret 2t12 damage scaling :
    • gear : Ret gear (high crit/haste), with both Prot/Ret 2t12 active
    • weapon : Hand Axe
    • build : any Prot build with 2/2 WotL, 3/3 Crusade, and 3/3 RoL
    • glyphs : SotR (other glyphs are irrelevant)
    • seal : Insight
    • buffs : none
    • target : any isolated boss-level dummy (it must be boss-level and it must not have output-altering debuffs)
    • attack sequence : only CS/SotR on cooldown, attacking from behind
    • goal : cast at least 30 CS and 5 SotR
    Avoid procs (Str/AP/haste), report total AP and haste rating(character panel), upload the CL.
  2. Ret 2t12 buff scaling :
    • gear : Ret gear, with Ret 2t12 active
    • weapon : Hand Axe
    • build : any Prot build with 2/2 WotL, 3/3 Crusade, and 3/3 RoL
    • seal : Insight
    • buff classes : spell haste (Improved Moonkin Form), spell damage taken (Earth and Moon)
    • target : any isolated boss-level dummy
    • attack sequence : only CS, attacking from behind
    • goal : cast 20 CS
    Bring a Moonkin friend, ask for buff/debuff coverage, report AP and haste rating, upload the CL.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:22 am

Hopped on the PTR briefly this morning to test a few things: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gxi9 ... il0cx/log/

This was in 4p12 prot.

1) The 4p12 buff is called Flaming Aegis, and it does take effect immediately after Divine Protection ends, even if canceled early:
Code: Select all
[08:35:35.027] Theck gains Divine Protection from Theck
[08:35:35.027] Theck casts Divine Protection
[08:35:38.117] Theck's Divine Protection fades from Theck
[08:35:38.117] Theck gains Flaming Aegis from Theck


2) The 2p12 bonus is called Righteous Flames, and does exactly 20% of the damage SotR deals. This includes Inq-buffed damage:
Code: Select all
[08:35:55.702] Theck Shield of the Righteous Training Dummy *1* (O: 16087)
[08:35:56.721] Theck Righteous Flames Training Dummy 1 (O: 3217)

[08:36:19.212] Theck Shield of the Righteous Training Dummy 1 (O: 8043)
[08:36:19.898] Theck Righteous Flames Training Dummy 1 (O: 1608)

[08:40:58.364] Theck casts Inquisition
[08:41:04.894] Theck casts Shield of the Righteous on Training Dummy
[08:41:04.977] Theck Shield of the Righteous Training Dummy *1* (O: 20914)
[08:41:06.046] Theck Righteous Flames Training Dummy 1 (O: 4182)
[08:41:10.154] Theck's Inquisition fades from Theck


Nobody happened to be putting any spell damage taken debuffs on the dummies when I logged on, so I couldn't test if that affects things. My guess is that it's coded exactly the way Hand of Light is, and will thus benefit from anything that increases SotR's damage but won't be independently buffed by anything (i.e. it won't double dip).

If I have time today, I'll try and get around to the more thorough ret/prot test tlitp suggested, though I think this covers all the prot portions except for Earth & Moon interactions.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Both tests: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8y3u ... etails/38/
AP: 7345
SP: 2229
Haste (w/o Moonkin Aura): 1.30% (167 rating)
Melee Hit: 2.61%
Spell Hit: 11.07%

There's a large gap between the two tests, as well as some seal recasts to indicate the end of each test. I didn't have a Hand Axe handy, so a Cutlass will have to suffice.

First test:
Consistent with previous, Righteous Flames did 0.1999-0.2001 times the SotR damage, likely due to rounding error.
Interestingly, there are a few instances of SotR casts that aren't accompanied by RF attacks. At first, I thought this might be due to the RF proc missing independently of SotR. However, there were no RF misses recorded in the combat log, and there was also one case of two RF procs without an intermediary SotR:
Code: Select all
[14:30:55.650] Theck Shield of the Righteous Raider's Training Dummy 1479
[14:30:56.702] Theck Righteous Flames Raider's Training Dummy 296
[14:30:59.974] Theck Righteous Flames Raider's Training Dummy 296
[14:31:02.279] Theck Shield of the Righteous Raider's Training Dummy 1479
[14:31:02.980] Theck Righteous Flames Raider's Training Dummy 296

Looking at my log from this morning, I also got 35 RF procs out of 32 SotRs, suggesting some sort of reporting error. Upon further investigation, it looks like this is a bug in the new WoL client. Going through the log by hand, I stumbled upon this entry:

Code: Select all
6/11 14:30:58.739  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000001CB702,"Theckk",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA0000113E,"Raider's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53600,"Shield of the Righteous",0x2

Which should correspond to the orphaned RF proc.

I thought the missing RF procs could be due to the same problem, but none of them showed up in the raw log. This suggests that the proc misses independently of SotR and that miss events are not properly being reported in the combat log. Counting the missing SotR, we'd have 61 RF procs out of 64 SotR casts, or around 4.7% miss rate. My melee miss rate against an 87 boss is 5.39%, while my spell miss rate is 5.93%, making it difficult to tell which of these the ability uses. To narrow it down, we'd have to put together a gear set that reaches spell hit cap without reaching melee hit cap and take a much longer data set to look for misses (<1% when at spell hit cap, iirc).

The Crusader Strike data is strange. For some reason Crusader Strike isn't always being logged properly, so there's a string of Crusader Strikes that have SPELLCAST_SUCCESS and SPELL_ENERGIZE events but no SPELL_DAMAGE events to go with them. This makes it tough to tell what's going on with Flames of the Faithful. However, there definitely does seem to be something going on. Initially, normal hits were causing DoT ticks of ~204 damage, while crits were causing ~408 (you can see some of these clearly from the events that did make it in the log). This would be consistent with 7% of the damage of the CS (~2710*0.15/2=203). However, the tick size in the log can fluctuate in-between those values in certain circumstances - we have ticks around 230, 251, 271, 282, 288, 316, 338, 344, 354, 388, 394 that don't correspond to similar-sized hits (example: 14:31:30 there's a 2717 CS followed by two 267 ticks). I assume this is some sort of rolling mechanism, but I'm not familiar enough with how that works for other classes to identify it (I'm guessing it adds the new damage to the remaining and recalculates the DoT ticks every re-application).

Second Test:
Apparently I was bad and stood within the hitbox of the dummy at first and was getting parried. Oops. In any event, we had the Moonkin haste debuff and Earth & Moon active for all of this test. I do believe a DK managed to put Brittle Bones on the dummy at some point - you may need to filter that section out if you're going to work on exact numbers for anything. In any event, it doesn't look like E&M had any effect on either set bonus - 2704 CS's still procced 203 FotF's with 2-second DoT tick intervals, and RF procs were still exactly 20% based on the few SotRs I tossed in at the end.

Conclusions:
-Something wonky with combat log reporting on the PTR, occasionally CS will not be written to the combat log
-Righteous Flames can miss independently of SotR, but it isn't clear whether it uses spell or melee attack table dynamics. In addition, these misses are not being reported in the combat log.
-Neither RF or FotF are affected by spell haste or spell damage taken debuffs on the target.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Iminmmnni » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:09 pm

Does P2 T13 Ret grant HP on J cast or on J landing?
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Jackinthegreen » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:17 pm

Iminmmnni wrote:Does P2 T13 Ret grant HP on J cast or on J landing?

Considering CS only grants HP upon landing, it'd be very odd if J didn't work the same way. Blizz specifically made CS only grant HP on landing after Prot was getting too much HP from it.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:27 pm

But Grand Crusader grants it on cast. Hence why we want to confirm it on the PTR.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:03 am

At this point in time it's fairly unlikely that Souldrinker/Drain Life will get a rehash before 4.3 goes live, thus we can start decoding their implementation right away.

1. Triggers : what are the eligible triggers (i.e. "yellow" attacks) ? Does the application of Censure count as an eligible trigger ?
2. Multi-target triggers : is AS capable of multiple procs per cast ?
3. Trigger connects : does DL only proc off abilities that actually land (i.e. "on cast" versus "on hit") ?
4. Proc chance : is it really 15%, as the datamining suggests ?
5. ICD : is there one ?
6. Proc connects : can DL "miss" ? If so, does it follow the physical attack table or the spell attack table ?
7. Crit eligibility : can DL crit in the first place ?
8. Crit chance : is DL based on physical crit, on spell crit, on the crit chance of its' corresponding trigger ?
9. Crit multiplier : physical crit multiplier or spell crit multiplier ?
10. Damage component : is DL affected by auras in the first place ? If so, by attached-to-self auras (buffs), by attached-to-target auras (debuffs), by both ?
11. Damage type : is DL's damage non-piercing physical (i.e. armor-mitigated) ?
12. Damage component scaling : does DL's damage scale with AP/SP ?
13. Healing component : is it affected by attached-to-self auras ?
14. Healing component scaling : does DL's healing scale with AP/SP ?
15. Threat : does the damage component produce any threat ? What about its' healing counterpart ?


Let's assemble some initial tests :
(1,4,5,13)
  • build : Prot-centric, with 3/3 Divinity
  • gear : naked, having equipped a non-enchanted Souldrinker
  • seal : Truth
  • target : any isolated level 60 dummy (no debuffs)
  • attack sequence : only autoattacks
  • goal : at least one hour of autoattacks
Report : total HP, total AP/SP.

(1,2)
  • build : Prot-centric, with 2/2 Grand Crusader (no Glyph of Focused Shield)
  • gear : anything, having equipped a non-enchanted Souldrinker
  • seal : Insight
  • target : any (packed) group of level 60 dummies (debuffs are irrelevant)
  • attack sequence : autoattacks, CS on cooldown, AS on cooldown/GrCr proc
  • goal : at least 200 AS casts
Report : nothing.

(1,3,6,7,8,9,11,12,14)
  • build : Holy-centric, with 0/2 Enlightened Judgements, 0/3 Divinity, 3/3 Rule of Law (use Glyph of CS)
  • gear : Holy gear (a ton of Intellect; very low crit rating; no hit/expertise), having equipped a non-enchanted Souldrinker
  • seal : Insight
  • target : any isolated boss-level dummy (no debuffs)
  • attack sequence : autoattacks, CS on cooldown, attacking from the front
  • goal : at least 300 CS casts
Report : total HP, physical/spell crit chance, total hit/exp rating, total AP/SP.

(1)
  • build : anything Prot-centric
  • gear : anything, having equipped a non-enchanted Souldrinker
  • seal : Insight
  • target : any level 60 dummy (debuffs are irrelevant)
  • attack sequence : HotR as HPG, J, 1-HoPow SotR/Inq as finishers (avoid autoattacks to the best of your ability)
  • goal : at least 50 casts of J/SotR/Inq; stop at the first DL proc and switch to another tracked trigger
Report : nothing.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:56 am

First post updated with those requests. I'll be traveling until Wed, so I won't be able to perform them; hopefully someone else will chip in.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby johnsonitis » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:44 pm

Soul Drinker - 390 LFR version

AP=953
SP=311
Naked Prot w/ 3/3 Divinity
HP=50235

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fl89rrpjwv8ynb0y/
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:55 am

johnsonitis wrote:Soul Drinker - 390 LFR version
AP=953
SP=311
Naked Prot w/ 3/3 Divinity
HP=50235
parse

I. A low-level dummy is used, therefore "miss" events can be safely disregarded. Assuming that the application of Censure isn't a valid trigger, 421 DL procs off 1499 weapon swings lead to a 95% CI of [0.2587,0.3041]; the 15% hypothesis is way off. 421 procs off 2998 triggers (i.e. swings and applications of Censure) lead to a 95% CI of [0.1284,0.1533]; the 15% hypothesis correlates well with this sample.

II. All 421 DL procs do exactly 653 damage each. Not having a single crit event (explicit or "hidden", i.e. not parsed correctly by WoL) in this sample of 421 procs has a probability of about 1e-10. DL just doesn't crit, that's fairly sure.

III. The 653 damage procs can be trivially correlated with the theoretical value (0.013*50235); DL doesn't scale with AP/SP. Better put : if it does scale, the coefficient(s) must be smaller than 1/311=0.0032.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:00 pm

I got one on my warrior yesterday; if I can find some time this weekend, I'll take a few hour-long parse with her of just auto-attacks. That will give us a control group without Censure, and hopefully a large enough sample to pin down the proc rate.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:50 am

That's a good idea. Do keep in mind, however, that at this point we aren't sure that DL cannot miss; the initial WoL reports suggest so, but we can't positively rule out the possibility yet (i.e. there may be a parsing error). As such, it's safer to ignore it altogether by working with low-level dummies.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:19 pm

Level 60 dummy, a little over 2 hours of just auto-attacks with a 403 Souldrinker on Theck. AP: 8373, SP: 2537. Gear and spec are exactly what I have on the armory (shouldn't change for at least a few days).

Unfortunately, I had already enchanted the Souldrinker, so you'll have to deal with Windwalk procs. I suspect they won't make any difference, though.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7wub ... details/2/
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