Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.2

Postby econ21 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:54 am

yappo wrote:The main problem I see with the failsafe gear (as listed from PTR-sources), is that it seems to be mostly avoidance/avoidance and avoidance/threat.


That's a good point. I suspect I am close to a maxed out failsafe tank (although I am now actually wearing a couple of Firelands drops) and I am just about block capped (need 2 mastery trinkets for it). I'm almost indifferent now between avoidance/mastery gear and other stuff, so I will pretty much just look at ilevel henceforth. However I still prefer mastery gear for the greater flexibility it gives when re-adjusting to some new piece of loot.

I suspect the implication of what you say is that failsafe tanks, unlike dedicated raiders, will still need to worry about being block capped in 4.3. Which I actually find fun - stacking stamina is such a boring gearing strategy; trying to do it while jiggling block cap (and threat caps maybe in future with active mitigation) is more interesting.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.2

Postby yappo » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:32 am

Gear is listed. I'll see if there are any other sources for failsafe gear (apart from the PvP-items available come next season).
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.2

Postby econ21 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:42 am

yappo wrote:I'll see if there are any other sources for failsafe gear.


Thanks, Yappo. There are new 397 legs and bracers from Blacksmithing.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.2

Postby yappo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:08 am

Some of the theory sections updated. I'll add crafts and S11 PvP gear later. On my ToDo is also an updated evaluation of what gear the differently ranked tanks have.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.2

Postby Barathorn » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:23 am

Really good work on this thread, well done Yappo.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3 (WIP)

Postby yappo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:46 am

Thanks Bara (and welcome back, I guess).

I've added the S11 CP gear. I've also relinked and fixed the S11 conversion from 384 to 390 Honor gear. Added some advice to my links, and I finally caved in and added the disgusting CP shoulders as an option. 57 ilevels worth of scrap metal without a single tanking stat wins in the end, even if I dislike listing an item which screams "BAD TANK".
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3 (WIP)

Postby Barathorn » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:39 am

yappo wrote:Thanks Bara (and welcome back, I guess).

I've added the S11 CP gear. I've also relinked and fixed the S11 conversion from 384 to 390 Honor gear. Added some advice to my links, and I finally caved in and added the disgusting CP shoulders as an option. 57 ilevels worth of scrap metal without a single tanking stat wins in the end, even if I dislike listing an item which screams "BAD TANK".


I am just keeping the seat warm for Digren and making sure that people remain civil to each other in this forum :wink: .

Go about your business. Nothing to see here.

I do like your guide though, very nicely done.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:40 pm

Releasing this guide as its first finalized 4.3 version. Comment any mistakes I am guilty of.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:07 am

I do not think the int valour cloak should be listed as threat, the loss of str puts it roughly the same DPS as the Honor purchasable cloak in their un-reforged state 348DPS (honour) vs 360DPS (PvP). If you are wearing the int valour cloak likely to be struggling for full CTC so the the hit would be reforged to avoidance anyway putting it on par with a cloak with zero hit/expertise and only 158 str.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:21 am

lythac wrote:I do not think the int valour cloak should be listed as threat, the loss of str puts it roughly the same DPS as the Honor purchasable cloak in their un-reforged state 348DPS (honour) vs 360DPS (PvP). If you are wearing the int valour cloak likely to be struggling for full CTC so the the hit would be reforged to avoidance anyway putting it on par with a cloak with zero hit/expertise and only 158 str.


Good point. I'll redefine it as CTC only.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Xylaria » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:58 pm

Hi,

i'm really liking this guide, however, i was wondering why for the chest pieces, it says to use the following item from Blacksmithing
ilevel 359, Blacksmithing, Hardened Elementium Hauberk, threat
while there is now: Vicious Pyrium Breastplate, isn't that a better item overall?

Thanks

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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:07 am

Xylaria wrote:Hi,

i'm really liking this guide, however, i was wondering why for the chest pieces, it says to use the following item from Blacksmithing
ilevel 359, Blacksmithing, Hardened Elementium Hauberk, threat
while there is now: Vicious Pyrium Breastplate, isn't that a better item overall?

Thanks

Xylaria


Ah, thanks for reminding me about the crafted PvP gear. I've simply overlooked them. The chest in question is indeed a better overall tanking piece, even though it's still not as good from a threat pont of view. I've added it as a CTC option and added a recommendation that it's a good way to start your gearing career.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Beeswax » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:47 am

I was curious as to why some of the 4.3 gear was left out of the tables. Like the Iceward Cloak, Shard of Torment, Hand of Morchok, Gavel of Peroth'arn, and Waistplate of the Desecrated Future.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby degre » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:57 am

Beeswax wrote:I was curious as to why some of the 4.3 gear was left out of the tables. Like the Iceward Cloak, Shard of Torment, Hand of Morchok, Gavel of Peroth'arn, and Waistplate of the Desecrated Future.

Reading the info would help understanding.

First page, first paragraph.
Section 1: Random ramblings.

First of all I want to thank Digren. First for defining tank levels, and second for graciously allowing me to borrow the graphic items needed to clarify this guide.

The guide is, and will continue to be, aimed at what I'll call third tier tanks. Ie, those of us who play tanks because it's fun, or at least because it's what we do best, but who are nowhere close to being cutting edge tanks. This shouldn't be confused with Digren's tank levels. Those are based on the average quality of gear available to a given tank.

We are, because this is not a levelling gearing-guide, 85, and we're scrambling to get the best gear possible.


For those of you unfamiliar with a failsafe gearing guide, every item listed here has to be a 100% cash out item. Drops are disqualified. Whatever upgrade is listed here you can, and should, get, because if an item listed here is an upgrade compared to what you have, then said item is one that you're guaranteed to get. Hence the 'failsafe'. In reality you WILL get drops, so if the hypothetical tank geared only according to this list is ready to raid, then so should you be, given proper time.


Is called failsafe so that if you can't drop an item you can rely on these to have an upgrade.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby madmessias » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:27 am

What offpiece will you guys use? (Aiming for hit+exp+ctc cap) but obviously prioritizing ctc cap, depending on the fight.

Going for the 4set aswell, and duno what offsec piece i should use.. (Not counting in spine/madness)
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:15 pm

madmessias wrote:What offpiece will you guys use? (Aiming for hit+exp+ctc cap) but obviously prioritizing ctc cap, depending on the fight.

Going for the 4set aswell, and duno what offsec piece i should use.. (Not counting in spine/madness)


Looking at the 397 valor pieces, and given how esay the three new five man and LFR are to complete, I'd say that the valor pieces are overall preferable for a threat set, while the 384 tier-tokens (in as much as you ever win them) will build you your survival set.

As always, keep more than one set ready. I go with three (plus PvP). A threat set (that's really a dps-set with decent tanking stats, because I like to point fingers at lazy dps), a stamina set and a CTC set. The two latter have as close to zero hit/exp as humanly possible.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Pinupgirl_Madoran » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:24 am

According to my phone's armory app there's a set of heroic 410 capes.

Doesn't say where they come from, but they're listed there in the app.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:12 pm

Pinupgirl_Madoran wrote:According to my phone's armory app there's a set of heroic 410 capes.

Doesn't say where they come from, but they're listed there in the app.


I don't know if such exist or not, but in any case it really doesn't matter as far as this guide goes. Anything that requires you to win a drop falls outside the scope of a failsafe guide.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby lythac » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:40 am

yappo wrote:
Pinupgirl_Madoran wrote:According to my phone's armory app there's a set of heroic 410 capes.

Doesn't say where they come from, but they're listed there in the app.


I don't know if such exist or not, but in any case it really doesn't matter as far as this guide goes. Anything that requires you to win a drop falls outside the scope of a failsafe guide.


They don't exist, armory has them listed.

Seems wowhead has a filter on now that prevents unobtainable items from showing up in searches, which is why you see it on the armory and not wowhead. You can take the items ID from armory search and use it to make a wowhead link, tah-dah - Indefatigable Greatcloak (410).
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Xylaria » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:05 am

Hi,

I just saw Plans for Unstoppable Destroyer's Legplates on the AH... They look pretty good, except for they have Haste and Mastery on them, instead of Mastery and something else.
I was just wondering if I should still go for it or not.

I'm at work and can't post a wowhead link or anything, but in general, they are:
3,350 armor,
426 str
730 stam
red socket
yellow socket
yellow socket
socket bonus + 30 str
315 haste
264 mastery

ilvl 397

as a sidenote, any idea if i would make profits on the AH when creating these legs? Or are they not interesting for any build?

thanks for the help!
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 am

Xylaria wrote:Hi,

I just saw Plans for Unstoppable Destroyer's Legplates on the AH... They look pretty good, except for they have Haste and Mastery on them, instead of Mastery and something else.
I was just wondering if I should still go for it or not.


Haste is kind of a dead stat as far as tanking is concerned. There are, however, dps-builds for classes which thrive on haste.

I wouldn't recommend these legs (and hence the plans) for tanking purposes unless you're woefully inadequately geared in that slot. As for the AH viability I'm afraid I'm rather clueless. It's a matter of what's available for plate dps out there.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Valentus » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:11 pm

This has been a great guide so far. May I suggest for the Waist, add the Beech Green Belt as an option instead of Girdle of the Mountain for those trying to CTC cap. I personally plan on using it with my next batch of JP purchases since mats for the forged belt are too expensive, and plan on reforging the +crit into +dodge.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby yappo » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Valentus wrote:This has been a great guide so far. May I suggest for the Waist, add the Beech Green Belt as an option instead of Girdle of the Mountain for those trying to CTC cap. I personally plan on using it with my next batch of JP purchases since mats for the forged belt are too expensive, and plan on reforging the +crit into +dodge.


Done.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Dechion » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:20 am

Thanks much for putting this together.

I'm still in the leveling phase, getting ready to gear up quickly once I hit 85. This has been a great help building my shopping list.

I still need to plug all my choices into ask mr robot to see how all the stats balance out, and how I can reforge once I get there, but I think I can actually have a 365ish item level the same day I hit 85. (I have deep pockets, inscription has been very kind to me. I also plan to use an AV weekend to have 4k JP and 4K honor banked before I even hit 85)

A couple questions if I may. What would you think of the 377 crafted PvP ring along side the Justice Point one, at least as a starting point? How about the crafted 377 PvP shoulders?

I'm just looking at things to hold me over until I get drops, while I'm grinding rep and Valor Points for further upgrades.

edit: My math was bad, I'll be looking at about a 365 I level, not 390ish.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

Postby Cowmmunion » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:31 am

From the OP: "If you should somehow find yourself with nothing but the 346 shoulders, because, well, RNG actively hates you, then the bloody awful PvP shoulders listed here might be a last resort. They have absolutely nothing tankworthy to them, but the staggering difference in ilevel brings an extra 500 armor, 240 stamina and 200 strength (54 parry rating at the 27% conversion), and you can always reforge into some 100 mastery. This still doesn't make these shoulders any good, but they are better than the 346 anyway."

As far as the ring - I'm a big fan of putting on anything that gets you into heroics/LFR faster. A player who is only half braindead in PvP gear will still be somewhere in the middle of the pack preformance wise. You can also get the 378 DPS ring and reforge that into ~100 mastery just by running the new heroic's quest line.
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