Windwalk, outdated?

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Windwalk, outdated?

Postby degre » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:32 am

Last night was playing a bit with my reforge to fix the excess in CTC that I'm having after I've got a few upgrades and I've stopped staring at that Windwalk on my weapon, I mean, until I wasn't ctc capped surely was extremely useful, but how useful is now, when I'm ctc capped and I no longer need an unreliable avoidance proc?

Point is, before doing something demented I thought I'll ask for an opinion here...

Anyway, in my reasoning first I thought of Mending, shame the healing isn't really that much... so I thought that maybe I could instead go down the DPS path and get Landslide, and surely I could do with extra dps.


Thoughts? Am I going insane?
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Juugimus » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:41 am

I was wondering this as well. With the tight enrage timers of some of the early heroics, I was looking at that Landslide enchant and wondering.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:53 am

Just FYI Landslide at 100% vengeance values -
2% hit, 10 exp = 240 DPS
8% Hit, 26 exp = 300 DPS

Matlab thread - Enchant/Food Comparison

I can see it being worth it, I definitely wouldn't think of it as "doing it wrong".
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby tlitp » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:59 am

lythac wrote:Landslide at 100% vengeance values -
(...)

Unlike Hurricane or the Weapon Chains, Avalanche/Landslide are both Vengeance-invariant. Nitpicking at its finest. :P
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Dantriges » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:13 am

What´s the gain of the weapon chain?
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Hawkslayer » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:49 am

I've also been considering moving away from Windwalk to something else, but have yet to commit to trying anything.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:26 pm

Dantriges wrote:What´s the gain of the weapon chain?


Smaller than Landslide; the Matlab threat lythac linked above has theck's in-depth analysis and graphs.

The thing I'm thinking, however, is I want to make sure I hit more often, not necessarily harder. I'm interested in the hit for Souldrinker and Delayed Judgement procs, not because I want to do more dps.

In which case the weapon chain would give me the stats I want, at the cost of either RNG avoidance, or straight AP (Landslide). Neither 2pcT13 nor Souldrinker benefit from AP, afaict.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby tlitp » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:04 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:I'm interested in the hit (...), not because I want to do more dps. {I)
Neither 2pcT13 nor Souldrinker benefit from AP, afaict. (II}

I. That's just sickening, in more than one way. :mrgreen:
II. Having only those ridiculous "bubbles" in mind, LS is roughly two times stronger than PWC (at low hit/exp).
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Stubblerump » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:36 pm

I'd argue that it's still the standard. You may be ctc capped, but that means most of it is mitigated damage, not avoided damage. Dodge means no damage. Being ctc capped just allows you the freedom to move away from mitigation and start putting more into actual avoidance, imo. As for being an unreliable proc...well, so is the healy one. Extra dps is cool, mostly shining in small groups and marginally helpful in a raid. But tank survival, which usually comes down to healer mana conservation, trumps everything.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Kihra » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:32 pm

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've always used Landslide and think Windwalk is just worthless.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:00 pm

tlitp wrote:I. That's just sickening, in more than one way. :mrgreen:


Away with you, pure DPS class!

tlitp wrote:II. Having only those ridiculous "bubbles" in mind, LS is roughly two times stronger than PWC (at low hit/exp).


Admittedly, the bubbles are small and lost in the statistical noise of overhealing and whatnot. Alone they're really not a big deal. In tandem, they add up, but again, are so small as to be noise and likely overhealing. But in specific cases, can they be game changing?

I'm digging through n.Ultraxion logs where I was trying to juggle Inq, and have a WoG and Delayed Judgement shield up for every Hour. It's a lot of buttons and CDs to juggle, as well as being a change in my rotation (I've not tried to keep inq up, prior to this). Needless to say I made a botch of it, but it's nice knowing that I can delay a Judgement to give myself 6-9k free health for a little bit.

So I guess it comes down to a choice between a few hundred DPS in exchange for some Hit. I'm leaning towards the Hit, but if I can hit 8% elsewhere without getting too gross, I'd go Landslide, of course.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby degre » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:55 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Dantriges wrote:What´s the gain of the weapon chain?


Smaller than Landslide; the Matlab threat lythac linked above has theck's in-depth analysis and graphs.

The thing I'm thinking, however, is I want to make sure I hit more often, not necessarily harder. I'm interested in the hit for Souldrinker and Delayed Judgement procs, not because I want to do more dps.

In which case the weapon chain would give me the stats I want, at the cost of either RNG avoidance, or straight AP (Landslide). Neither 2pcT13 nor Souldrinker benefit from AP, afaict.

2pct13 should benefit from AP, as the shield provided is 25% of the damage judged and judgement is AP based.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will deal (1 + 0.223 * holy spell power.142 * AP) Holy damage to an enemy, increased by 20% for each application of Censure on the target.


I'm not in the condition to do any math now, 1000 AP shouldn't really make a noticeable difference in our shield, but would do it, while I believe you are correct in saying that souldrinker shouldn't benefit from AP.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Xarlanther » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:15 am

I definitly advice against using Mending.
I tried it for a few raids not to long ago (firelands hc) and it only showed around 20k healing over the total course of a bossfight according to the logs.

Windwalk is still very powerful as it has a pretty high uptime, I do agree it has become less of a no brainer choice though.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby Cli » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:24 am

Kihra wrote:Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've always used Landslide and think Windwalk is just worthless.


You are not alone.
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Re: Windwalk, outdated?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:56 am

It's not completely worthless, but it's hard to quantify. 2% dodge proc with ~15-20% uptime vs more dps isn't very compelling to some people, but 2% dodge proc vs increased DPS when that DPS can be a significant contributor to overall RDPS *and* personal bubbles (I stand corrected on it affecting Judgement, which pretty much tipped me over to running LS) -- is far more compelling.

I'd still prefer a hundred hit rating enchant, but, alas.
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