Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby madmessias » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:27 am

So its about a 600dps increase to use inquisition at high expertise/hit levels, but it is the same at lower hit/exp levels, why? I used to use it at lower hit/exp but i hated it, since whenever i missed an crusader strike well.. my dmg started sucking, since i wouldn't get a good finisher, but at high hit/exp that won't happen, so you will always get a finisher, any explanation why this wont increase the dps more?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Durability » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:19 pm

So its about a 600dps increase to use inquisition at high expertise/hit levels, but it is the same at lower hit/exp levels, why? I used to use it at lower hit/exp but i hated it, since whenever i missed an crusader strike well.. my dmg started sucking, since i wouldn't get a good finisher, but at high hit/exp that won't happen, so you will always get a finisher, any explanation why this wont increase the dps more?


If I had to guess, it's because having low hit/expertise reduces the chances that you get a SOTR off during Inquisition's duration. Missing CSs or SOTR itself can lead to Inq falling off before it hits, so you lose the main benefit of Inquisition.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:20 am

madmessias wrote:So its about a 600dps increase to use inquisition at high expertise/hit levels, but it is the same at lower hit/exp levels, why? I used to use it at lower hit/exp but i hated it, since whenever i missed an crusader strike well.. my dmg started sucking, since i wouldn't get a good finisher, but at high hit/exp that won't happen, so you will always get a finisher, any explanation why this wont increase the dps more?


I'm not 100% sure, but I can think of a few reasonable guesses.

1) Trading SotRx2 for Inq+SotR isn't actually a big DPS increase. It's that trade plus the extra Censure, AS, Judgement, Cons, and HW damage you get during the duration of Inq that makes it worthwhile. As you increase hit/exp, the rotation tightens up and there's less room for those fillers, so potentially you offset any potential gains you get that way.

2) Remember that you only use Inq if you don't have Sacred Duty active. Sacred Duty will have higher uptime at hit cap, potentially leading to lower Inq usage.

3) Another thing the Inq rotation capitalizes on the fact that SotR misses at low hit, leading to strings of "wasted" GCDs and pushing CS back. At high hit/exp, that doesn't happen as often because SotR connects more reliably, which increases SotR's effective damage per cast and results in less pushback, subsequently reducing the advantage gained by using Inq.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:16 pm

As a heads-up, I'm planning on spending some time tomorrow getting some things ready for 4.3 updates. Most of the code is already there, I just need to do some things to pretty it up (like import items and make gear sets) and get it posted.

Please don't discuss the 5.0 mechanics or code in this thread (not that anyone has yet, this is just an advance warning). I'll be starting a new thread for the 5.0 version of the matlab code once the mechanics are more firmly rooted in place.

If you want to speculate about 5.0 mechanics/rotation/etc, feel free to make another thread to do so, but keep in mind that since we have very few numbers yet there's almost nothing worth discussing at this point.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:02 pm

Most of the sims/posts are updated for 4.3. I'm working on the weapon sim now, which should be done in an hour or two (I have to update the gear database with all of the new items first). The stat sims may have to wait until sunday night, when I'll have access to my home machine; those sims have been giving my poor laptop trouble, because the memory allocation starts exceeding the system's physical memory and going to page file.

I haven't posted results that include the ret 2-piece bonus; I'm planning on doing so in the near future (a week or so at the latest), but probably as an appendix or separate sim. That way I can skip most of the queues (because presumably Khira isn't interested in WoG rotations when he's maximizing DPS!).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:55 pm

OK, everything updated, including stat scalings. Ret 2-piece sims to come later.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Jeremoot » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:48 pm

Really disappointed to see no gains from watching CS / Judgement CDs.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby daiceman » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:04 am

Nice work Theck, I do see you had a small typo in post #593311 on the first talent comparison you have "-0 expertise" instead of "10 expertise"

Also, your single target rotational highlights #8 talks about the over healing that WoG will do, for most people this is a non issue as 2/2 guarded by the light automatically converts any over healing into a shield that lasts longer then WoGs cooldown.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Marblehead » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:29 am

It seems like, in the calculations, the glyph of judgement is erroneously at 5% damage increase rather than 10%.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:10 am

Marblehead wrote:It seems like, in the calculations, the glyph of judgement is erroneously at 5% damage increase rather than 10%.


It's coded properly at 10%, but it's additive with WotL.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:13 am

daiceman wrote:Nice work Theck, I do see you had a small typo in post #593311 on the first talent comparison you have "-0 expertise" instead of "10 expertise"

Also, your single target rotational highlights #8 talks about the over healing that WoG will do, for most people this is a non issue as 2/2 guarded by the light automatically converts any over healing into a shield that lasts longer then WoGs cooldown.


That's not a typo, actually, that's a bug. The SoI config has 0 expertise. I'll try and find time to fix that tonight.

The WoG overheal shield only lasts 6 seconds, not 20. And your WoG can turn real healers' heals into overheal, which negates the effectiveness of your WoG in an indirect manner.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Jeremoot » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:08 pm

Theck, would you consider adding a section to the index detailing "What changed this patch?"
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:06 am

Jeremoot wrote:Theck, would you consider adding a section to the index detailing "What changed this patch?"

Sure, I've added it after the table of contents. I just rattled off the changes I could think of off of the top of my head, if I missed any let me know and I'll add them.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:52 pm

I've moved several posts asking gear questions to a different forum. This is a reminder that
A) This isn't the gear forum. If your question doesn't have anything to do with the simulations, it doesn't belong in this thread.
B) At least read the last page of the thread before posing. Earlier this page I mentioned that I'd be simming out 2-piece Ret some time this weekend. Asking "have you thought of simming 2-piece ret" is more than a little rude when the answer is already staring you in the face.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Awyndel » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:41 am

Really nice work on 4.3 Theck. Don't know what we would do without these sims. I am certainly going to prio J over AS for 2set.

Waiting patiently for the ret 2p and souldrinker sims :) .

I hope somebody who was lucky enough to have it drop was able to run some logs for you.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kihra » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:51 pm

Awyndel wrote:Really nice work on 4.3 Theck. Don't know what we would do without these sims. I am certainly going to prio J over AS for 2set.

Waiting patiently for the ret 2p and souldrinker sims :) .


I had a Souldrinker on the PTR for a couple of weeks and so was able to raid with it. Although I didn't get a chance to do rigorous log testing, I could see from our normal mode raid logs that 403 Souldrinker will easily outdps 410 Hand of Morchok. It was doing 6% of my DPS or so on most fights, which amounted to more than a 1k+ DPS gain from the proc alone.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:29 pm

We had one drop from Deathwing this week, but my co-tank took it. So unless I can convince him to do some mechanics testing (unlikely), we'll have to wait until someone submits a log in the CtA thread.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:36 am

theckhd wrote:I just rattled off the changes I could think of off of the top of my head, if I missed any let me know and I'll add them.


I wonder if Jeremoot was asking for a brief summary of what has changed in your results rather than of the mechanics changes? If so, is it that we now should prioritise judgement above (non-Grand Crusader proc) avenger shield in our rotation?

At least, that's what I took as the practical implication of your work for 4.3:

theckhd wrote:The buff to Judgement has shifted filler priorities around. AS+>J>AS has pulled ahead, leading J>AS by about 10 DPS. AS>J hsa fallen another 10 DPS behind. In general, the order of these two fillers won't make much difference for DPS. You do get a slight increase in absorb bubble effectiveness by prioritizing J though.


Reading it again, I think you are right 10 dps does not amount to much. But prioritising judgement over AS seems smart for the bubble, as you say, and for the mana (did we lose the mana refresh from SoI? If so, it will be a little harder to get juice back if one gets over-enthusiastic with cons/HW).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:15 am

econ21 wrote:I wonder if Jeremoot was asking for a brief summary of what has changed in your results rather than of the mechanics changes? If so, is it that we now should prioritise judgement above (non-Grand Crusader proc) avenger shield in our rotation?


That's not a bad idea either. And yeah, I think that's the only significant change in 4.3. And it's arguable whether it's even fair to call it significant, given that it's such a tiny margin.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Nioknight » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:27 am

Alright, this is my first time posting but I love the calculations and everything
First point:
I got Souldrinker on my Protection Paladin last night, it's amazing. (I could do logs for you guys but I'm not sure how)

EDIT:
Also the heals seem to definitely be more than 3% healing done from the proc off Souldrinker (1.5% doubled). I had 201,000 hp with flask and my own buffs, and it healed me for about 6700 hp a proc (instead of 6k hp if 3%). Divinity might be effecting it?
And overheals from Souldrinker do NOT count towards Scales of Life effect
Last edited by Nioknight on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kihra » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:00 am

Nioknight wrote:Any help/advice would be really appreciated. It goes against my intuition to not use Resolve because it's higher, but I think it might be worse for me.


This is the wrong forum for gear questions. You should take this to the Gear Discussions and Advice forum.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Nioknight » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm

Kihra wrote:
Nioknight wrote:Any help/advice would be really appreciated. It goes against my intuition to not use Resolve because it's higher, but I think it might be worse for me.


This is the wrong forum for gear questions. You should take this to the Gear Discussions and Advice forum.


Thanks, fixed it.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:14 am

Nioknight wrote:Alright, this is my first time posting but I love the calculations and everything
First point:
I got Souldrinker on my Protection Paladin last night, it's amazing. (I could do logs for you guys but I'm not sure how)

EDIT:
Also the heals seem to definitely be more than 3% healing done from the proc off Souldrinker (1.5% doubled). I had 201,000 hp with flask and my own buffs, and it healed me for about 6700 hp a proc (instead of 6k hp if 3%). Divinity might be effecting it?
And overheals from Souldrinker do NOT count towards Scales of Life effect


If you have time, there's a list of tests that need to be performed in the Call to Arms thread. That post also has instructions for how to record and upload a combat log to WoL.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:57 am

Ret 2-piece sims are posted, see table of contents.

<edit> I also stumbled across a bug regarding the prot 2-piece. Judgement's absorb bubble isn't being modified by Inquisition properly. It's a simple fix, but I won't be able to get around to it until later today or tonight; I'll update the code and results at that point. This should only affect the rotation sims, as all of the others use a standard 969 rather than the Inq rotation.

<edit 2> Fixed, posts updated.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Jeremoot » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:47 pm

Thanks for all the hard work Theck (as well as tlitp0, iminmmnni and anybody else involved with the matlabadin project), you've really been doing the community a great favor for years.
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