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Zell has left the building.

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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Flex » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:42 am

The latter hasn't been removed though...
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby halabar » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:50 am

Vrimmel wrote:It's pretty far from the point, actually. That is confusing situations where interactions are forced upon you with interactions where you are forced to utilize other players as a resource. The first one although sometimes annoying and in excess can ruin the game for some is something which is still present today. The latter is what forms relationships.


But those golden moments really only happen in guilds, Unless you happen to be in "the Instance" guild on earthen ring horde, where the guild is the server...

From all my time in BC and early Wrath, I can count a handful of times where we looked for specific people. Guild alliances seem to fill the role you are wanting the server community to create. Or on servers that have pug raid channels.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:52 am

I was gonna mention that... a guild so big, basically the whole faction -is- the guild.

didn't they have to split the guild in 6 parts of itself?
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby halabar » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:53 am

Klaudandus wrote:I was gonna mention that... a guild so big, basically the whole faction -is- the guild.

didn't they have to split the guild in 6 parts of itself?


Something like that. I'd hate to be alliance on that server.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Vrimmel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:31 am

Flex wrote:The latter hasn't been removed though...


Yeah, but there's no incentive to do so. It is not punished, but using the non community-forming alternative is more convenient and efficient, in other words more rewarding than taking your time. So people will chose that way. It's not only the dungeon finder, but profession trading on the AH, which used to be done manually. Trading might not be the most important aspect, but its all part of the puzzle which makes up the social gathering arenas of WoW.

You might still meet people in the dungeon finder which you might go well along with, but they may be on another server and you don't really need them to complete dungeons with anyways.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby mavfin » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:52 am

Vrimmel wrote:but its all part of the puzzle which makes up the social gathering arenas of WoW.


You may have a better memory of it than I do, but, the great social awesomeness within your server you're talking about never really existed on either my Alliance or Horde server, outside of my guild. It's not any better or worse now than it ever was, imo; i.e. LFD neither improved nor hindered the social fabric of my server(s) or my guilds.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:57 am

mavfin wrote:
Vrimmel wrote:but its all part of the puzzle which makes up the social gathering arenas of WoW.


You may have a better memory of it than I do, but, the great social awesomeness within your server you're talking about never really existed on either my Alliance or Horde server, outside of my guild. It's not any better or worse now than it ever was, imo; i.e. LFD neither improved nor hindered the social fabric of my server(s) or my guilds.


Well it improved the social experience on MY server because I no longer had to group with them. :)
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby mavfin » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:05 am

Sabindeus wrote:
mavfin wrote:
Vrimmel wrote:but its all part of the puzzle which makes up the social gathering arenas of WoW.


You may have a better memory of it than I do, but, the great social awesomeness within your server you're talking about never really existed on either my Alliance or Horde server, outside of my guild. It's not any better or worse now than it ever was, imo; i.e. LFD neither improved nor hindered the social fabric of my server(s) or my guilds.


Well it improved the social experience on MY server because I no longer had to group with them. :)


Well, you have a point, but, I guess I'm saying that random cross-server puggies are no better or worse than my server was, outside of my guildies and a couple 'friendly' guilds that we still interact with. We're on the same side, Sab. :D
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:52 am

i know I know I just like to throw my own snarky commentary in the ring
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby degre » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:55 am

Vrimmel wrote:It's not only the dungeon finder, but profession trading on the AH, which used to be done manually. Trading might not be the most important aspect, but its all part of the puzzle which makes up the social gathering arenas of WoW.

With all due respect, screaming or advertising in /2 surely made you socialise with other traders, but if you look into it was done because you were getting bored out of your mind and you needed some sort of recreation to keep yelling and posting in /2.

I like much more being able to craft when I want, put everything on the AH and instead of being forced to socialise with whoever is spamming in trade I can go run an istance with my mates or get out and jump on my bike, while my items are selling themselves.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Kelaan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:28 pm

The quality I've found in cross-server pugs matches the general quality of groups I found (better, even, likely due to the convenience), but the main draw is the supply of other players. Now, instead of three people wanting to run Arcatraz on the entire faction, there are several servers in the same pool, and some who just want to run a Random dungeon.

Rewards for random rather than specific runs is a big reason for this, I think.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Zonzede » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:57 am

I was in a fairly major guild from vanilla to cataclysm, and I understand the points being made about their social effects. However, in my experience things were never so closed off. Before the LFG tool, sure I ran usually with the guild, but I just as often picked up folks from trade or other guilds I knew. Because I had to so often pick up 1-3 other folks we got to be familiar with a large chunk of the server. Even small guilds had a known reputation, and individuals stood out for various reasons. I'd make a lap around town and recognize half the folks there, either by having met them first hand or by guild association.
Now, I couldn't even name more than 2 other guilds on Darkspear, let alone anybody in them. It didn't change much how I socialized with the guild, but it changed how I socialized at large.

Point being, I think the sense of Server Community many people are nostalgic for wasn't derived from those you interact with most, but those you can see but interact with least.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:11 am

Everyone that talks about being stuck in major cities while looking for groups, seems to have forgotten that at one point there WAS a global /4 LFG channel.

As far as server community... I couldn't tell you the name of any guild I wasn't apart of pre-cata. Not that it's changed much for me post-cata. That being said, my first guild was a group of people that met while grouping in Wetlands as opposed to any of my friends that got me to start playing. I think what may have "killed the server community" has less to do with LFD and more to do with the pace of leveling/difficulty of questing, since most "5 man group quests" are soloable on nearly every class, and even if they aren't, it doesn't really matter because you already outleveled the zone before getting to them.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:52 am

Skye1013 wrote:That being said, my first guild was a group of people that met while grouping in Wetlands as opposed to any of my friends that got me to start playing. I think what may have "killed the server community" has less to do with LFD and more to do with the pace of leveling/difficulty of questing, since most "5 man group quests" are soloable on nearly every class, and even if they aren't, it doesn't really matter because you already outleveled the zone before getting to them.


Also true. There are a lot of other factors besides LFD and it's predecessors.

When you were questing for a week in a zone, you got to know other people in the zone.
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Re: Zell has left the building.

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:07 am

Skye1013 wrote:Everyone that talks about being stuck in major cities while looking for groups, seems to have forgotten that at one point there WAS a global /4 LFG channel.


Which was introduced later, and then not a single damn person used it because everyone was too used to advertising in Ironforge.
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